Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo? Join Emma and Jack as they venture to fair Verona and watch as ancient grudge breaks to new mutiny in this analysis of Baz Luhrmann’s beautiful adaptation of William Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet.
Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo? Join Emma and Jack as they venture to fair Verona and watch as ancient grudge breaks to new mutiny in this analysis of Baz Luhrmann’s beautiful adaptation of William Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet.
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Romeo + Juliet (1996)
[00:00:00] Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode
[00:00:13] of the old soul movie podcast, a show that features backgrounds, so reviews and reflections of some of the most influential movies ever made. And now your host, Emma and
[00:00:24] Jack
[00:00:37] Jack Oremus: [00:00:37] Hi everyone. And welcome to another episode of the old soul movie podcast. And tonight we're going to be covering Romeo and Juliet. Emma, how are you on this? Fine, fine July evening. I believe this is going to be our final July film. We cover in what a way to. Just continue the summer. How are you tonight?
[00:00:58] Emma Oremus: [00:00:58] Absolutely. I am [00:01:00] doing well. Definitely. I've been tired training my Fortina challenge, but excited to cover this one. You had a brilliant idea since we covered the 50th anniversary of Willy Wonka last weekend, that we should cover the 25th anniversary of a movie. We picked this one together and what a spectacular film
[00:01:18] Jack Oremus: [00:01:18] this is definitely.
[00:01:21] And I think, and we have both discussed this, that the nineties are a particularly underrated decade when it comes to film. I think you could probably group this movie into some of the big ones that came out during the decade. But what about the nineties stands out to you? Because obviously it's not like a golden age cinema movie.
[00:01:44] It has young Leonardo DiCaprio. And, uh, but what about this decade? Peaks your interest?
[00:01:51] Emma Oremus: [00:01:51] Oh, well, the nineties were a really cool time for film. I just liked the style of a lot of the movies and I think what not, how do I put [00:02:00] this? I really like nineties trailers for movies. There's something about the epic voiceovers.
[00:02:07] It feels really cinematic to me that I just love. And I think that there's a really big sweeping, legendary quality to some of the stories that are brought to the screen during that time. This one is no exception at all. I liked the aesthetics. I really do.
[00:02:25] Jack Oremus: [00:02:25] Yeah, no, I, I agree. And I would say that the nineties were pretty epic.
[00:02:30] Like I think that the eighties kind of had more culty films in some aspects. I feel like the nineties kind of brought back in a similar vein as the seventies, sort of these big blockbuster movies. And this one is no exception. I mean, Had a budget of roughly $14 million, but pulled 151 million at the box office.
[00:02:50] This one, along with obviously the big Leo movie of the nineties Titanic, this one actually came out before that one. And so [00:03:00] I think that that is kind of cool to look at just the progression of Leo and his career, the early, early stages. It's awesome to see him sort of in this kind of element, especially if you're used to seeing.
[00:03:14] The latest Leo movies. Yeah. It's actually really
[00:03:16] Emma Oremus: [00:03:16] funny. You say that because, uh, when they were on set, I believe for this one, Paul Rudd and Leo were hanging out talking and Leo told him, oh yeah, there's this movie called Titanic. Um, you know, looking into and stuff. And Paul Rudd is apparently is a history buff and was very familiar with that tragedy and thought it would be a really cool opportunity to take on.
[00:03:40] So maybe this movie helped out with that.
[00:03:44] Jack Oremus: [00:03:44] I would agree. And that's very important that you mentioned that because there are quite a few actors in this that either went on to become pretty big. I mean, you mentioned Paul Rudd, but I mean, we also have Claire gains. We have who else? I mean, well,
[00:03:59] Emma Oremus: [00:03:59] it's [00:04:00] so funny.
[00:04:00] I'm looking at the cast list and Jesse Bradford, you know, another little heartthrob of kind of that. Nineties, two thousands era. Uh, so it was really funny. Jamie Kennedy who played Sampson, the one with kind of the bruise on his eye. He, when I was looking at him, I didn't even realize, I thought, oh my gosh, he looks so familiar.
[00:04:24] And I looked it up and he was in ghost whisper. One of my favorite shows when I was little with Jennifer Love Hewitt, who ironically enough was a contender for the role of Juliet in this
[00:04:37] Jack Oremus: [00:04:37] film, she was not only just a contender for the role of Juliet, but also Natalie Portman, which is crazy. I mean, if you think about the, what ifs.
[00:04:48] That would have been pretty cool. I think, I mean, seeing Natalie Portman, there was some belief that she was too young to play the role of Juliet in this film. But I think that it, it [00:05:00] turned out just how it needed to be. I think that it would have been cool to see, but I do like Claire Danes for maybe 80% of the movie.
[00:05:08] Uh we'll we'll get into it later. I'm sure. But, uh, what are the biggest things that stand out to you about the cast, maybe even in comparison to Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet? I mean, it's, it's a classic piece of art. I think that these two are pretty fundamentally different. I think that this is definitely its own thing, but, uh, off the bat, I mean, this is a polarizing movie.
[00:05:33] I think that we have to also just get that out of the way. If you haven't seen this before. Pretty intense in a lot of different aspects. It set in the modern time, it uses sort of the old English dialogue it's jarring. I would say it's very fast. Baz Luhrmann is the director. So you know that it's going to be very quickly cuts and whatnot.
[00:05:57] Uh, Emma, what comes to mind when you think of this [00:06:00] movie?
[00:06:01] Emma Oremus: [00:06:01] Well, okay. Let me, I guess kind of pre-wired in my brain. I think that I'm going to have similar feedback or comments to this that I had to the 2013. Great guests be one. We covered it. I kind of think that there's a similar sense of his style Bosler men's style with a classic work of fiction.
[00:06:26] So that being said, I think it was. Really cool. How it was set in modern times. And I think adapted for a nineties audience, especially a young audience, a teen audience watching this. I mean, I had to watch this football. I didn't have to, I think it was extra credit. I watched this film in high school and I think when you're a teenager, it makes it a lot more accessible to see familiar faces, acting out something that [00:07:00] is kind of in a different language, in a sense.
[00:07:02] I mean, you understand it, but it takes an extra second to maybe translate the old English.
[00:07:10] Jack Oremus: [00:07:10] Uh, yeah, I was going to say yes, I agree. And if you were considering putting on the subtitles for this, uh, in case you didn't understand what they were saying, it might not even help you that much because the way they reference things and talk about things is.
[00:07:26] Archaic that you really have to just follow the action almost. And I think that that is what that's. My biggest recommendation is just follow the action, because if you try to keep up with the dialogue, you might have some issues with it, especially if you're one of our non native English speaking listeners.
[00:07:43] So keep that in mind, if you are considering to watch it, if you don't want to watch this version, there are other versions of Romeo and Juliet that were adapted. I'm on. Do you want to touch on those?
[00:07:56] Emma Oremus: [00:07:56] Yes, there is one from 1968, which stars? [00:08:00] Olivia Hussey. That one, I think is the one they did make us watch in high school.
[00:08:04] That was actually a pretty good one. That's pretty faithful adaptation. It's set in olden times and the guy Leonard, uh, I'm blanking on his last name, but he looks exactly like seq. Ephron's that kind of makes that one fun to watch if you've never seen it.
[00:08:22] Jack Oremus: [00:08:22] Yes. I remember watching both movies in school, actually.
[00:08:27] I think they showed us both. Uh, our teacher must have been just extremely lazy, uh, that week. I think they just wanted to reward us for Romeo and Juliet. But this one, I will say it could be polarizing. I think you fall under two of the camps, which again, like you said, is similar to the great Gatsby with Leo.
[00:08:49] Uh, I think you either love it or you have. I don't think that anybody can deny that the visuals are pretty spectacular.
[00:08:57] Emma Oremus: [00:08:57] It's a visually [00:09:00] stunning, beautiful artistic movie. It's just gorgeous, gorgeous,
[00:09:07] Jack Oremus: [00:09:07] gorgeous, gorgeous. I mean, it was nominated for an Oscar even best art directions slash set decoration for Catherine Martin and Bridget broke.
[00:09:16] I think while you're watching it, it's easy to just get overwhelmed. And I think that's just the point of the story. I mean, if you look into the, the production notes, Baz Luhrmann, Even said, uh, just when he was deciding what his next project would be. He basically said our philosophy has always been that we think up what we need in our life, choose something creative that will make that life fulfilling, and then follow that road with Romeo and Juliet.
[00:09:44] What I wanted to do was to look at the way in which Shakespeare might make a movie of one of his plays. If he was doing, how would he make it? We don't know a lot about Shakespeare, but we do know he would make a movie movie. He was a player we know about the, it was about teen [00:10:00] stage and that he was playing for 3000 drunken punters from the street sweeper to the queen of England.
[00:10:05] And his competition was bear baiting and prostitution. So he was a relentless entertainer and a user of incredible devices in theatrical tricks to ultimately create something of meaning and convey a story. That was what we wanted to do. So that was what Lurman said. Basically about his goal for what he wanted Romeo and Juliet to be.
[00:10:26] And even in the title, it's a little artsy, it's Romeo plus Juliet. It's not even Romeo and Juliet, but you pronounce it Romeo and Juliet, but I think Lurman really stuck to his guns on what he wanted to do. He, he certainly wasn't catering this for anybody, uh, in particular, but I think that he succeeded in his ultimate goal of just nonstop action and really making it entertaining.
[00:10:51] Like if you are, I think this is again, like you said, very accessible to the modern audience, [00:11:00] just like great Gatsby, extremely fast cuts. I think it is what it's really the direction of where film is going now. Just because there are so many things to distract you while you're watching something, you need something that is extremely fast paced.
[00:11:14] Very upbeat and tempo. And I think that it is paced very well as far as just those action scenes mixed with those scenes, where there are some longer shots and you really have to pay attention to the love. I guess, more, more of the love aspects of the movie. Those are always sort of the belongings. Shots, which I, I love it.
[00:11:36] I mean, I do enjoy this movie a lot and I occasionally put it on. So, uh, I'm happy that we get to cover this and yeah, like you said, 25th anniversary. Amazing. There is some news that I think that we should cover. Uh, we should pay a little Omaj to, do you want to talk about what that is?
[00:11:55] Emma Oremus: [00:11:55] Yes. If you recall, during Romeo and Juliet [00:12:00] wedding, the little boy, the choir, boy that's things.
[00:12:03] When doves cry, he has the voice of an angel. He's just amazing. The actor that plays him, his name was Quinn, Don Tarbor. And unfortunately he passed away this past April in an automobile accident. So that is really sad, but just the impact
[00:12:21] Jack Oremus: [00:12:21] he made. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's not a huge part necessarily, but it is one of the coolest scenes because.
[00:12:28] Almost like a, I'm trying to think of what it reminds me of, you know, it
[00:12:32] Emma Oremus: [00:12:32] reminded me a little bit of, I wonder if it took inspiration in, um, across the universe when they play, let it be. I feel like I got some inspo from this movie, so I can totally see where the influence just keeps on rolling with those creative juices.
[00:12:53] Jack Oremus: [00:12:53] Totally. That's that's spot on. I can totally, I can completely see the, uh, the parallels there. [00:13:00] So yeah, I mean, he had a great little performance and, uh, wanting to give him his due, especially since. All that happened so recently, and it is the 25th anniversary of the film. So keeping the Tarver family in mind as we record the rest of this.
[00:13:16] And then on top of that, I do think that we should also cover the differences with the film and the original play since they use the original dialogue. I think some people might get caught up and say, there is no difference besides the obvious fact that they're using guns in calling them swords and blades.
[00:13:35] I
[00:13:35] Emma Oremus: [00:13:35] really like how they translated certain things like the post haste for their delivery, trucks, service, things like that. I had the whole ball, like everything was done in a way that was, it felt pretty timeless and modern at the same time, it was kind of its own world. You know, he really created, he really [00:14:00] created his own world.
[00:14:01] Hmm.
[00:14:01] Jack Oremus: [00:14:01] I think that there were, I think that there were parts where he. He used sort of the, the advantages of the modern world, you know, where maybe the security guard is watching the footage of the pool, uh, for example, or, you know, but also using sort of the advantages of. Maybe the original play. I E the timeless dialogue.
[00:14:27] I mean, when you listen to the, the lines, it's hard not to crack a smile. When you hear, you know, a Romeo where we're for Arthur, Romeo, or God, there, there was another great one at the end. Um, my poverty wills it, but not my, my own something. I can't remember. I can't remember
[00:14:47] Emma Oremus: [00:14:47] one that always gets me is that, uh, you know, banished, the merciful
[00:14:52] Jack Oremus: [00:14:52] state death, I just.
[00:14:56] There is no life outside the walls of Verona. That's what I mean. It gives [00:15:00] it this sort of epic feeling. And so it's really fun to watch. And of course it's Leo, so that makes it even better. But, um, uh, anything else we've read the
[00:15:09] Emma Oremus: [00:15:09] play? I don't want to say it's funny, but I remember when I read it for the first time and I mean, I had a really awesome, awesome English teacher.
[00:15:18] So shout out to Ms. Myers out there. It's um, yeah, she made her really funny and I could see the humor and that these characters were teenagers in so impulsive and they're giving into their lust. And so. I think that it makes it funny and there was a really, really good measure of keeping it serious, keeping it the epic field that you said while also playing into some of the humor a little bit, especially with the costuming and the music.
[00:15:54] I just yeah. Really enjoy it. It all around. It's such a good one. [00:16:00] I just think that this is definitely one to check out if you haven't just for even the visual arts of it, or if you want to get more into Bosler mins films, this is a stellar example. It's just a really fun movie experience. Yeah,
[00:16:15] Jack Oremus: [00:16:15] no. And I mean, with that being said, I think I just can't wait to get into the actual plot of the movie just because this is one of the timeless stories.
[00:16:24] This is one of, I mean, it's been adopted in. Multiple types of ways. I mean, we've even semi covered it on the podcast before with west side story. So this is sort of just another adaptation of it, in my opinion. Uh, yes, it's more literal maybe to the story of Romeo and Juliet, but it is the story of star-crossed lovers and it's incredible.
[00:16:48] So can't wait to get into it. Emma. I say we jump in,
[00:16:52] Emma Oremus: [00:16:52] I think that this is a really good example of a modernized Shakespeare adaptation. [00:17:00] If you like this, I'm going to throw out a recommendation of sorts out there. They not Bosler men, but there was another movie made with Ethan Hawke that kind of modernized Hamlet.
[00:17:16] So it was Hamlet, but in modern times. So, and I think he has, is to be, or not to be speech in a blockbuster, which is now. Dating itself, but I would recommend that one, if you, if you like this and you're looking for something similar, I would maybe say that I haven't seen it in years, but that would be one to check out
[00:17:41] Jack Oremus: [00:17:41] for sure.
[00:17:41] I haven't even seen that one yet. So I, uh, I need to look into that because I personally like even OC as well, so, uh, awesome, awesome stuff. Um, uh, are we ready to jump into Romeo and Juliet? Let's get into it in fair Verona beach, the Capulets and Montague's are two rival business [00:18:00] empires. The animosity of the older generation is felt by their younger relatives, a gunfight between Montague's led by Ben Bolio Romeo's cousin and calculates led by Tibble Juliet's cousin creates chaos in the city being the third civil bra, the chief of police, captain prince reprimands, the families warning them that of such an event occurs again.
[00:18:21] Their lives shall pay the forfeit of the peace. Emma. This is a crazy kind of intro. I mean, right off the bat, we, we see the news kind of presenting fair. Berona the opening lines of the play itself. I actually, I think it's really cool. I think it's really well done. I like this setup almost, I think right away, you kind of get a feel for how the movie is going to be, and it's cool how it introduces all of the sort of different characters.
[00:18:54] Yeah, I
[00:18:54] Emma Oremus: [00:18:54] think it's an iconic beginning. I love that they have the narrator character [00:19:00] as the newscaster. I think that's such a fun way of incorporating that role. Like I said, it's just an iconic beginning. I like that. We get to see the city, you really get a feel for what the energy's going to be like and the characters I like that they have the kind of title cards or the intro words with the characters name, with their picture, kind of at a still shot at every point.
[00:19:30] Right. I think that was very, very clever and necessary to keep everyone straight and understand who's on whose side, because. Shakespeare isn't, you know, necessarily the easiest, uh, especially when you have such fast action going on, like in a Bosler rental. So I think that that was really well done and kind of a weird compliment, but I love the font
[00:19:54] Jack Oremus: [00:19:54] style.
[00:19:56] I mean, Steve jobs would say that it's one of the most important parts of the movie. [00:20:00] He's a huge, huge, fine guy. But, uh, no, I agree. I mean, it's, it's not, I think old English, it does have a more modern look to it. I, I can't say exactly what kind of font that it reminds me of, but I think it does have a little Seriff to it.
[00:20:15] Uh, if memory serves me correctly, that just means it has a little, you know, like kind of thing poking out. But, uh, I did think to myself, I was asking myself while I was watching it, like, where did they film this? Because there are so many kind of elevated shots showing panning the whole city and upon a little.
[00:20:35] Did find out that it was filmed a little bit in Miami can totally see that. But most of it was shot in Mexico, between Mexico city and Boca Del Rio in Vera Cruz. So
[00:20:48] Emma Oremus: [00:20:48] I definitely get a lot of Mexico vibes. Like I feel like there's a lot of central American influence maybe style-wise or feel white. Yeah.
[00:20:59] Jack Oremus: [00:20:59] I [00:21:00] mean, the, uh, the, the Christian imagery is insanely strong.
[00:21:05] I mean, you, it's very, very in your face from pretty much the beginning to the end. You have illusions and a lot of pictures of, uh, Mary, our lady of Guadalupe, uh, trying to think of other divine mercy. I think I saw there was a lot. Yeah. There's just a lot of crosses everywhere. Everyone's rocking chains.
[00:21:31] Uh, I mean, imagery on the guns slash if I say guns, just think of them as the swords, because that's who they are. Yeah. That's what, that's what they are on the guns themselves. They say like rapier or dagger. Uh, I actually really like how that's, that's done as well. The long sword, the long sword. Yes, it's so cool.
[00:21:51] I mean, I just love how everything is done here. Uh, but yes, there's just a lot of stuff happening [00:22:00] right away. I personally love captain prince. Captain prince is just such a cool character to me. I don't know why, but he just brings such a swag to the movie that I feel like. Only he can bring Paul Rudd,
[00:22:16] Emma Oremus: [00:22:16] what a charmer boyish charm to his face.
[00:22:22] Jack Oremus: [00:22:22] Literal boy is sharp. I mean, he, I think was, I mean, let me, yeah, so he, yeah, so he was 26 when this came out. So baby, baby POL baby ant man, uh, up in here. So after this, we were introduced to Romeo kind of moody. Brutally, you know, writing, smoking, give me a cigarette. Feel like it's a classic Leo look the long hair, the sunset it's actually, it's, it's really an amazing shot, but we do see Ben Billio and Romeo learn of a Capulet party that evening, which they decide to crash.
[00:22:59] Romeo agrees on [00:23:00] hearing that Ross align with whom he is in love is attending. They meet their friend Mercutio who has tickets to the party. And Romeo takes ecstasy as they proceed to the calculate mansion, the effects of the drug and the party overwhelm Romeo, who goes to the restroom there. He sees Juliet and the two instantly fall in love, both unaware of who the other is.
[00:23:19] Tybalt spots, Romeo in vows to kill him for invading his family's home. Now I'm on. Yes. I feel like we're on the same wavelength here, boss. Lurman knows how to throw a party. If there is a party in Bosler, min is in charge of. Putting it all together. I want to attend because this one, the Gatsby party to me are two of the best party scenes that I can think of.
[00:23:50] What are your
[00:23:51] Emma Oremus: [00:23:51] thoughts here? This man is the master party is the party master. Uh, he even had a Vegas show, I [00:24:00] think, showcasing his party show.
[00:24:04] Jack Oremus: [00:24:04] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for this movie, I think that this is really where it shines. I mean, I don't want to say, I don't want to discount the rest of it, but this is the scene with the meeting.
[00:24:17] This is the scene with Mercutio being just Mercutio. Uh, so epic, so extra. And between the consumption of the ecstasy, this is all just a very. Hallucinogenic almost like seen you, you almost feel like you're on drugs yourself, kind of a whole movie, but especially scene.
[00:24:38] Emma Oremus: [00:24:38] He does a really good job of having you kind of take the substance along with Romeo and experience what that would have felt like via the use of those quick cuts and, or Kyusho singing the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[00:24:55] So yeah, I think it's just absolutely stunning. Yeah. I love [00:25:00] that. Meeting of Mercutio in the theatery ish area with the fireworks. I think he's iconic might be one of my favorite characters in this whole place slash movie. He's the best I'm obsessed Mercutio obviously comes from mercury, which is also the stem of the derivative mercurial.
[00:25:21] Mercury of course goes up and down, speed mercurial up and down, Mercutio he's up and down with his moods. So that's just a stellar example of good naming right there. I love the young hearts run free song that Mercutio dances to kind of in track. Uh, to me, that's kind of the equivalent of Toby McGuire's.
[00:25:47] I can't stop experience in the New York party, uh, in the great Gatsby. I think that if people. Complain about that kind of song usage. I think that a [00:26:00] similar technique was used here, but it's more of a 90 songs. So also the soundtrack of this album is just awesome. I know I said it in our music and the movies episode last summer, but seriously, I could listen to these songs all day long.
[00:26:15] They're stunning. I think it was like a platinum record in Australia, too.
[00:26:19] Jack Oremus: [00:26:19] It was a platinum record in Australia because that's where Bosler Herman is from. And so at one platinum there, yeah, it was, it was huge. It was a huge hit in Australia, which is just cool, you know, just on its own. But, uh, yeah, I mean, I think we have to discuss maybe this, this fish tank scene a little bit more.
[00:26:42] I do think it's one of the best sort of love meeting scenes, just due to the fact that they don't really say a word. No.
[00:26:49] Emma Oremus: [00:26:49] I totally agree. What's funny about this movie to me is I think you can kind of relate or you can look back at yourself and teenage years [00:27:00] and remember what all of this was like, you know, oh, I'm into that person.
[00:27:04] I want to go to this party and all this stuff. And Romeo is such a drama queen. He's so moody. Like you said, very ANC C and Claire Danes is very dreamy and I don't know, just sweet, precious kind of this purity to her, which is, um, a really fun mix when they meet. Via fish tank and I that's just, it, it really did a really fun job of showcasing love at first sight and the maybe distortion and things being in the way all of these symbols water of course will be hyper present in several scenes.
[00:27:46] And this is just kind of the first one,
[00:27:49] Jack Oremus: [00:27:49] right? Yeah, I know. And like, you kind of mentioned this movie in a way almost. I mean, obviously, but it kind of depressed me and not [00:28:00] just because of the nature of the ending, but because it does really capture that feeling of young love extremely well sort of the, I think it was mentioned in a later line Shakespearian line, I think from the fryer slash priest, but just how.
[00:28:19] Quick, you know, it's like gunpowder and fire when they meet. And so that really encapsulates this relationship, but it's just so quick, so passionate that you can't really, you don't have the time to, to breathe or really think about what's happening. I mean, for God's sakes, he was there for Roselyn or wrote it at first.
[00:28:40] So, I mean, this is like, you're going to some party and you just, I guess, randomly fall for someone else that's there, it happens. But, uh, yeah, I mean, I think in the play, yeah, it's supposed to be like 13 or 14, right? Yeah. And, and, and Romeo was supposed to be about [00:29:00] 16 or 17 years old, so yeah. You kind of, like you said, you go back to when you were that age and you think about how you thought about maybe love or relationships.
[00:29:11] And I feel like they do a really good job of just showing kind of how crazy passionate it can really be. So, um, yeah. And again, the water between the pool that we're going to see shortly in this fish tank and everything else there. Do you want to talk about maybe what you kind of perceive that as far as like a meaning or as far as what that might mean?
[00:29:35] Emma Oremus: [00:29:35] First of all? Oh my gosh. The song with I'm kissing you in the background is just everything. By the way, we love that song too. And I think that it can be up to interpretation to an extent, but I think water is really fluid and. There's a big [00:30:00] concept of time and love and all these big life events. And I think that that has fluidity to it as well.
[00:30:07] And it moves so quickly. So I really think that the water's mimicking relationship patterns to an extent.
[00:30:15] Jack Oremus: [00:30:15] Yeah, no, I can see that. And like you said, I would have really liked to have seen maybe even a Winnie Houston appearance. Oh, that would have been. So I think that, I mean, she's my favorite in a dream casting scenario that would have been awesome to have a Whitney song kind of playing the background wall they were meeting.
[00:30:36] And if Natalie Portman was like maybe two years older and it wasn't as creepy on screen, that would have been just from a 20, 21 standpoint. Really cool to see as far as knowing how their careers really progressed. Yeah. I've wished
[00:30:49] Emma Oremus: [00:30:49] this would have held up just maybe a few here. But like also not really.
[00:30:54] Cause I think the timing is everything and it was the right timing and all that stuff, but, [00:31:00] oh, that would've been so cool. This is one of two times that we missed out on Natalie Portman and Leo being paired with each other, the other being star wars, him not being cast as the older version of Anacon in, uh, the clone wars.
[00:31:17] So we missed out twice and um, I think it would be a really cute screen. Couple, you know, I know this, I had no idea that Leonardo DiCaprio was six feet tall. And so I was looking up facts for this
[00:31:32] Jack Oremus: [00:31:32] he's he's decently tall. I think everyone else in this cast is just extremely tall because, uh, he doesn't look huge in this, but interesting that you point that out.
[00:31:43] Cause I kinda thought the same thing, but also, I mean I'm I'm okay. Well I'm not a hundred percent sure if there was any kind of. Camera positioning to kind of give him the appearance that he might be a little shorter just to make it seem like he [00:32:00] was younger, younger. I could, I could see that being a technique that was used, sorry, folks haven't seen or read anything that indicates that that was like a hundred percent true, but I can see that kind of as, as something.
[00:32:13] Yeah. I would do personally, if I were kind of directing, make him seem more youthful or something. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, he's got like no hair on his body in his face now I'm just critiquing how he looks.
[00:32:29] He's Leonardo DiCaprio. But, uh, but yeah. So after this, after this, after Tybalt vowed to kill Romeo, I, I do love Tybalt nickname, the prince of cats. I just think that's so that's just so sick, but
[00:32:44] Emma Oremus: [00:32:44] cat named Freddy and one who has a boy cat.
[00:32:48] Jack Oremus: [00:32:48] Yeah. The prince of cats. I love that. I'm I think that might be a name that you might consider in the future.
[00:32:57] Yeah. And so after Romeo leaves the party, [00:33:00] he and Juliet each learn that they belong to feuding families, but Romeo returns to see her Juliet tells him that if he sends word by the following day, they will be betrothed. The next day, Romeo asks father Lawrence to marry them and he agreed. Romeo passes the word on via Juliet's nurse and they soon get married, Tibble encounters, Mercutio and Romeo at the beach Romeo attempts to make peace, but Tibble assaults him Rakisha, intervenes, and battery symbol, and is about to kill him.
[00:33:28] When Romeo stops him, Tybalt takes the opportunity to fatally wound Mercutio who curses both houses before dying enraged Romeo chases. After the fling Tybalt I'm on here is
[00:33:45] Emma Oremus: [00:33:45] the crux of the
[00:33:46] Jack Oremus: [00:33:46] matter, isn't it? Yes. Is the crux of it all. And I think upon rewash, I forgot how fast the wedding sequence really happens between Romeo and Juliet.
[00:33:58] It's like a [00:34:00] minute, maybe two minutes, but I think that one of my favorite parts leading up to that is sort of these mental images that father Lawrence had. Of the families reconciling in his head and him ultimately agreeing it's kind of this, you know, obviously best case scenario, what I mean, you know, the story you just want to happen so bad.
[00:34:23] And I think if you put yourself in the shoes of father Lawrence, you, anybody would almost do the same thing. So what do we think of this entire sequence?
[00:34:32] Emma Oremus: [00:34:32] I love that glimpse in his head too. It's really a spectacular and a really good, uh, way to visually show, uh, characters, motivations that you don't always get to play.
[00:34:43] So that's a big help, I
[00:34:44] Jack Oremus: [00:34:44] think, to an audience. It is also the scene where we do see Quinton. Tarver seeing the, when doves cry and it's this kind of beautiful light. Almost church-like version of it. And so [00:35:00] it's a, it's a really cool scene. I think gospel version. Yes, exactly. It's the gospel version of when doves cry.
[00:35:07] Uh, but I mean, before that though,
[00:35:10] Emma Oremus: [00:35:10] then before that we have a very important scene, which is the interpretation of the famous balcony scene. Now I think they did a fantastic job in this because, okay. We all know the Romeo, Romeo, where at the Romeo and the balcony and climbing up the balcony, like, you know, we all have that picture in our head.
[00:35:35] And I actually think this did a fun job of making it not so cheesy or forced cause this isn't really a cheesy movie. This takes itself very seriously. So I liked that this kind of turns the trope on its head and brings them together. In the pool. It's funny that you think it's going to be Juliet up there and it's the nurse opening the thing and then Juliet's [00:36:00] downstairs and it's just really romantic and sensual and Nepal.
[00:36:04] So I like that move again. We get a little bit more water.
[00:36:10] Jack Oremus: [00:36:10] Yes. Yes. And I, again, really like how there is some added tension with the, the guard, so to speak with the video cameras. I mean, Romeo might be one of the Columbia's this version of Romeo might be one of the clumsiest men ever to walk the face of the earth.
[00:36:29] Anything he can bump into. I really don't know how he didn't get caught, but regardless the scene. Yeah. When they're both like, when they're both falling into the pool, I think it's beautiful. Especially kind of when they get out and then. Claire Danes just kind of pushes them back in kind of saying like he already has her love and it's, it's kind of the sappy part inside of me, the soft part of my heart that just, you know, loves how the underwater [00:37:00] shots are kind of done.
[00:37:01] And I think that it is not to, you know, give a huge spoiler alert. You all do know how it ends the finals. Allude back to this scene, this one, and of course the meeting at the party, but this one in particular is like the final, final shot of the fade out of the movie. And so I do think that it was, it had to be, it had to be one of lemons, kind of favorite shots if it had that kind of, yeah.
[00:37:27] I
[00:37:27] Emma Oremus: [00:37:27] think that the water is another symbol associated with it. It's kind of a sense of purity and washing away things, uh, something very cleansing. So I think when you look at their love, it is this pure cleansing thing, and this is kind of a beautiful demonstration of it. I think it's just visually very pretty.
[00:37:50] I think it's kind of behind the scenes fun. Claire Danes had a special underwater wig. This scene, she were awake throughout this whole movie, which is just [00:38:00] mind blowing to me. And one thing that I back to the actual like delivery of it all. Uh, Leonardo DiCaprio said he really fought for Claire Danes because when they were doing auditions, she was delivering the lines super genuinely.
[00:38:15] And she wasn't being flirtatious with him during the auditions. And I think that that was really important in this adaptation, having someone who really believes what they're saying, and they're bringing the character to life, you're not just playing off of being a love interest to someone she really took the time to be like, who is Juliette and to advocate for her motive.
[00:38:40] Jack Oremus: [00:38:40] Yeah. And I think along the lines of the delivery, the famous line, Romeo, Romeo, some people might have a bone to pick with it. Uh, personally, this is just me. I'm not like the biggest fan of how Claire Danes sort [00:39:00] of delivered the, the biggest lines. But every other line, I actually really enjoyed how she really played the part.
[00:39:10] I was just like, there was something just not quite there with me. And it could just be me being really like critical. But I do like the fact that she made it her own and I respect that and I'm like, okay, you, you have this image of who Julia is and that's how she would deliver the lines. And so I do, you know, I respect.
[00:39:31] Exactly how that was done. So I think she
[00:39:34] Emma Oremus: [00:39:34] did a fantastic job, especially the second half that some of those really intense emotional scenes, uh, another person that was up for Juliet was Sarah Michelle Gellar, which I actually, I would have loved to have seen her an audition tape. I actually think she would have been stellar if it didn't work out with Claire Danes, but of course, Sarah Michelle Gellar had a scheduling conflict, so it didn't work out for her, but I think she would have
[00:39:58] Jack Oremus: [00:39:58] slayed it too.
[00:39:59] Absolutely. [00:40:00] But, uh, other pretty important, big thing that happens in the sequence, they do get married, even though that is the shortest wedding scene of all time. Immediately after that, we do see that Romeo is trying to sort of be the bigger man, really stand up to. In this huge epic beach showdown, which I love how this is set up with the long shots of the storm, rolling in the heats, all the foreshadowing we know it's about to go down and yeah, I mean, just this, this conflict, this brawl between Mercutio Tybalt Romeo, this sort of three way fight, ultimately ending in Mercutio, having a scratch.
[00:40:45] Uh, one of the, I love how he delivers that. I love how that shot with him. Murky show, like you said, it's just such a great character. I love how Harold Perrineau portrayed him, especially in this epic [00:41:00] dying scene, a plague on both your houses and the rain, again, the water coming in between the storm itself and.
[00:41:12] Romeo shooting Tibbles sort of into this pool. Um, and the water taking on a whole new meaning within that context. Uh, Such a crazy sequence. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:41:24] Emma Oremus: [00:41:24] That I just think father Lawrence is so cool. Like what a cool priest with the big cross tattoo on his back and the, I dunno, it's awesome. I love the small intimate wedding and, uh, might be one of my favorite wedding dresses in a movie ever is a Juliet, which I think is really cool.
[00:41:45] And the, the whole that fighting sequence. It really like, I think it's cool that there's kind of a stage there. So that's a nice way to harken back to the source [00:42:00] material. I think that the, I mean, I love the, the line of mercury shit. I don't like mercury show stuff that sucks, but at the line where he says, ask for me tomorrow and you shall find me a grave, man, funny guy, even till the end, but it's stuff like that.
[00:42:19] I think delivery is important. Cause there are like, like, okay. Shakespeare is a punny guy and William Shakespeare. I mean, he just does it all. He's just so talented. I'm not even gonna go there cause he's just got it all. And yeah. So humor delivering that is so important. So yeah, I'm going to give another plus also to Harold Perrineau as Mercutio, because I think he did a really good job of bringing that funny comical side, even when something really serious was happening, because that was very true to what was going on the character.
[00:42:56] And what I think is really cool was that there was a real [00:43:00] hurricane coming in, like during that scene. So that was all real footage. You'd think it'd be CGI, but I think that gave it this really gritty, realistic feel that you could connect with. Happy accident, I suppose. And yeah, that water, that purification that washing away, the bad blood, all that stuff.
[00:43:24] And that hurricane it's like moving forward, all of these crazy changes that are about to go down. And I think that, okay, I'm kind of like thinking we're at the halfway mark, what'd you say? Right
[00:43:38] Jack Oremus: [00:43:38] about, yeah, maybe a little bit more. Yeah.
[00:43:42] Emma Oremus: [00:43:42] I feel like there's this funny thing in movies where. It's either kind of an up and down in terms of your favorite scenes, the whole way through an engagement, or sometimes there's movies where the first half is just stellar.
[00:44:00] [00:44:00] So good. And then the second half can kind of lose you a little bit, and this doesn't necessarily completely lose me in the end, but I think the real exciting stuff is in the first half. And you've got to pay attention to the second half. Uh, and it kind of goes back to what you said earlier about the fast cuts and not being so distracted, knowing what's going on.
[00:44:22] I noticed that boss Lerman films, where it does start off that kind of choppiness, and then it goes into the longer cuts. So it's kind of this point forward. I would say you really have to dedicate paying attention to where it's not this crazy, crazy craziness all the time. Rarely do I ever see a movie where I am not engaged the first half and love the second half.
[00:44:46] Jack Oremus: [00:44:46] Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think for me the first shot where I was like, wow, that was a longer cut was sort of the, the moment of realization when they both find out that each other is [00:45:00] a calculate in a Montague, uh, up until that it was, you know, like fast paced. Wow. Wow. And then you kind of just get stuck on Leo space and then that overture, that right.
[00:45:10] Kind of that music, the spore it's like, oh my God, you know, the, the game has changed. And then from that point, almost it does get gradually a little longer. And like you said, the second half, not as big of a fan of, and it's kind of funny how that almost mimics how the great Gatsby too, like I'm a huge fan of the first half of the 2013, great Gatsby.
[00:45:35] And then the second half, as soon as Daisy and Gaspe are a little bit more familiar, it loses a little something. I guess how we maybe both feel about it. I don't want to speak for you, but I mean, that's
[00:45:47] Emma Oremus: [00:45:47] how I would say there are things I definitely like in the second half, I just find the first half more engaging, but I mean, it's all fun and games until a tragedy hits,
[00:45:58] Jack Oremus: [00:45:58] I guess.
[00:45:59] So, [00:46:00] and games until the prince of Katz loses one of his lives. Uh, but yeah, so after this captain prince banishes Romeo from the city, and he goes into hiding with father Lawrence, the nurse arrives in Tulsa, that Juliet is waiting for him. Romeo climbs Juliet's balcony and they consummate their marriage with Romeo departing.
[00:46:21] Soon after meanwhile, well, hen CEO decides Juliette will marry Dave Paris, the governor's son, the next morning, Gloria informs Juliette that she has to marry Paris. And when Juliet refuses, Valencia threatens to disown her Juliet runs away and seeks out father Lawrence imploring him to help her will threatening to commit suicide.
[00:46:40] Father Lawrence gives her a potion that will let her fake her own death after which she will be placed within the calculate vault to awake in 24 hours later, father Lawrence vows to inform Romeo the plot via letter where upon the latter will sneak into the vault. And once reunited with Juliet, the two will escape to Mantua.
[00:46:58] Romeo does not see the delivered letter, [00:47:00] however, and believing Juliet to be dead buys a vial of poison from an apothecary Ima. Here we go. Okay.
[00:47:09] Emma Oremus: [00:47:09] Well, not to just like keeping fixated on my comment from earlier about first staff's for second half's and all that stuff, but I'm just thinking from a structural standpoint, they're not similar at all, but I had a similar experience as I watched the newest.
[00:47:28] Um, a star is born lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper, where I feel like the first half was really romantic and exciting and new love and all these crazy cool, good things were happening. And then the second half, it was just so many bad things were happening. And as I'm reading this description and where it's going, it's a similar vibe where there's so many bad things happening.
[00:47:51] It's not like state fair. It's just one stock and things.
[00:47:55] Jack Oremus: [00:47:55] And then like one baby bath. The only thing is like state fair. [00:48:00] And in all honesty, go back and watch that movie and really listen to that episode if you haven't very funny, but I mean, maybe this kind of mimics real life. How. Real relationships go.
[00:48:13] I mean, I don't know if it's intentional necessarily to have the viewer's feelings kind of bounce from that high to such a dramatic low. That is
[00:48:22] Emma Oremus: [00:48:22] funny thinking back to the play too. I just remember finding situational humor and it was just a domino effect of bad things. So I think if you can kind of identify some of that, it can uplift you a little bit.
[00:48:38] Like it just nonce bad things are happening.
[00:48:42] Jack Oremus: [00:48:42] Kind of like what we discussed earlier. Like I think the films most iconic scenes really do come in the first third, maybe even up to the very halfway where, uh, Tybalt kills Mercutio and there's that whole drama going on, [00:49:00] but, uh, yeah. I guess sequence this segment of the movie can feel a little, like not lost, but it's just very, I don't even know.
[00:49:10] How, how would you describe this, this part of.
[00:49:15] Emma Oremus: [00:49:15] Um, I would say it's just kind of, I mean, lost isn't too bad of a word because I actually kind of feel like that is what Romeo is feeling, but Juliet's feeling, you know, it's like, it's like the very end scene of the graduate when they're on that bus after that crazy wedding sequence.
[00:49:35] Yeah. Headed off and they're so excited, but then you start them slowly getting scared. That's kind of where Juliet and Romeo are in this portion. I would say, where they made these impulsive actions and now they're facing the reality of what that actually looks like. We get to see a play out here unlike the graduate.
[00:49:56] Yes. So I think that you're, you see a lot of [00:50:00] foreboding scariness going on that these two young kids, they're just trying to find their love and there are some really romantic scenes. So for sure, the, um, you know, Romeo coming up to Julius bedroom at, when they spend the night together, but I think there's some just beautiful visual ones, uh, kind of like.
[00:50:19] In the desert ish. Uh, I don't know about the desert. Yeah. Uh, the baddest shit parts. So I think that it's just collectively this, uh, it's supposed to feel a little disorienting.
[00:50:34] Jack Oremus: [00:50:34] No, and it does a great job at that. I would say a pretty crazy that that scene of them consummating the marriage was the first scene that Claire Danes and Leonardo DiCaprio shots, especially since they didn't initially get, uh, get along well on set.
[00:50:53] So.
[00:50:56] Emma Oremus: [00:50:56] I kind of like that choice. It reminds me of a [00:51:00] similar choice that was made with the notebook where they actually shot it backwards, where they had the reunion, the first scenes that were shot. So it was kind of awkward. Like we don't really know each other. And then they filmed chronologically scene wise backwards.
[00:51:16] So that by the end of filming Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams were super close and maybe dating at that point. Uh, so it was all laughter and stuff, um, for when they were young and in love. Now, this kind of gives me that feeling of, oh, this is the first time spending the night together. They're a little bit shy.
[00:51:36] There's a little bit of that coming through. Who knows? So I don't know. I think that that could have been maybe what they were going for that vulnerability of sorts with not really knowing someone and doing this intimate.
[00:51:50] Jack Oremus: [00:51:50] I, I do think that that's cool just from an acting standpoint, how you could be affected personally, because actors are people too, just how [00:52:00] those relationships really formed throughout the period of filming.
[00:52:03] So, uh, very important to point that out. Thank you, Emma. So anything else before we kind of head onto the, uh, the final final portion here? Oh
[00:52:13] Emma Oremus: [00:52:13] boy, let's see how these violent delights
[00:52:16] Jack Oremus: [00:52:16] and moving on to our final portion. We see Romeo entered the church where Juliet lies and consumes the poison just as Juliet wakes up distraught over Romeo's death.
[00:52:29] Juliet picks up his gun and shoots herself in the head, falling down beside his lifeless body. And the final part of the film Romeo spotty is, seemed to be taken inside an ambulance with a crowd of spectators and reporters observing the incident from behind the police line. When the parents, both Romeo and Juliet arrive.
[00:52:47] Captain prince approaches their fathers, asking them to see the scores that has resulted from their feud, including him losing his kinsmen. And that heaven has found means to kill their joys with love [00:53:00] the captain, then shouts on them, saying all are punished, punish it, punish it all. They're punishing.
[00:53:09] Thank you, captain prince. What? I think we both know what we want to discuss here. Let me see if I, I can read your mind. There's a lot of big thing I'm thinking of is maybe Juliet, you know, tells Romeo. Hey, I'm alive a little, a little bit faster before he consumes this poison. It's like a solid minute that she's alive.
[00:53:40] Your fingers kind of Twitch. And she's just at him. You're just looking at him. That is kind of the funniest part of the film. To me, I'm a weird thoughts. Oh my
[00:53:51] Emma Oremus: [00:53:51] gosh. Where do I even begin people? Let me go back to the original Britain. Play by William [00:54:00] Shakespeare in the play. Romy is already significantly dead for a good amount of time.
[00:54:06] And then Julia wakes up. Now a little bit of a creative licensing was taken a year to make it more suspenseful she's well alive and looking at him as he's taking this poison. Now I got to give the girl maybe the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe. When you're waking up from that truck, you're a little bit disoriented.
[00:54:33] I don't know, but I'll never forget. I actually did watch this one in high school. Cause I remember that same English teacher made the comment that she could have easily stuck her fingers down his throat and he would have thrown up the poison and it would have
[00:54:48] Jack Oremus: [00:54:48] been fine. I was thinking that as I rewatched it for this episode, I was like, just yak, just pull trig.
[00:54:55] And you're good. But I guess [00:55:00] I don't know, being frustrating, being the moody man that Leo is, uh, I feel like you just, he committed to it just in that moment. And uh, and yeah, not even a drop was left on his lips for, for Juliet, but, um, this is, I I think besides me. An insane fire hazard, a really beautiful ending theme with all the candles, gorgeous, insane, and look how
[00:55:27] Emma Oremus: [00:55:27] different it is.
[00:55:29] There's essentially a lot of death and we have the opposite of water going on with all these flames and all this fire. So it's a little bit of that passion that envelops them into the violent ends instead of water, which is kind of the softer, calmer, purifying element in this story. So, but yeah, visually gorgeous a little bit unbelievable in terms of [00:56:00] plot.
[00:56:02] I don't know, but yeah.
[00:56:04] Jack Oremus: [00:56:04] Yes, it is a little bit funny how it does end. It is tragic. I mean, it is a very sad ending. This is not an uplifting movie by any means. Very happy that it ends in this sort of beautiful way. I love that overhead shot again, like we mentioned earlier, all of the scenes of their relationship kind of being montage through at the end.
[00:56:28] I just love it. I mean, it's, it's a really pretty movie and I think that I have a soft spot for movies that just visually look good. And so, yeah, I mean, I, it's a, it's a great one. It's a great one. If you haven't seen. Be prepared. I mean, be prepared for sensory overload, moody Leo, frustrating Claire Danes.
[00:56:50] It is, it's just, it's, it's a ride. It's a ride everybody. And, uh, I, I'm very happy that we have the chance to, to cover it. Talk about it a little bit [00:57:00] and celebrate its 25th anniversary, because I think that until this is, I mean, this is sort of the modern remake, uh, until it gets picked up again, I don't know when that may be, but this is sort of yeah, 20, 25 years old.
[00:57:17] So me and this movie, it's going to be great year, great rest of this year, but, uh, yeah. I'm uh, what, what else kind of stands out in your mind before we sort of sign off any final thoughts on Romeo and Juliet?
[00:57:30] Emma Oremus: [00:57:30] Wow. Romeo and Juliet. It's one of those stories, it's kind of like Cinderella, you know, it is so high concept, two warring families, their kids fall in love.
[00:57:43] I'm sold, it's been adapted throughout the ages throughout the centuries. It's one that we'll always find a tie to. I feel like it can see it in, uh, however our society looks. [00:58:00] So I just think that this is a really fun movie. It's a really great way of capturing a rebellious love with kind of a rebellious style.
[00:58:09] And I think that it's, yeah, it's different. But I think that. That's a good thing. I think that Shakespeare would be proud to see this and would be proud to see style and experimental elements all coming together, uh, for something that's really a timeless story and a timeless play
[00:58:32] Jack Oremus: [00:58:32] couldn't have said it better myself.
[00:58:33] I think that yes, Shakespeare would have appreciated it. And I think that Basel Herman, like he set out to do accomplish his goal of making it just as entertaining as possible, uh, personally doing what he felt like he needed to fulfill his life. And so highly recommend this one to everybody that is curious about it.
[00:58:55] If you haven't seen it, go check it out. Hopefully we've talked about it enough to interest [00:59:00] you, and if you have listened to it already, maybe you agree with some of our comments. If you don't, if you do hit us up on social media, also movie podcasts on Instagram, also pod on Twitter. We would love to hear your feedback.
[00:59:12] In addition to that, if you would consider visiting our Patriot, we would greatly support any kind of monetary contribution you would be willing to provide us with everything goes back to the costs of the show and maintaining that. So wanting to mention that we're always very appreciative of that. Uh, Emma, is there anything else that you would like to say before we say farewell to fair Verona?
[00:59:38] Emma Oremus: [00:59:38] Oh man. What a fun time. This was like I said earlier, if you're interested in this kind of modern meets old school style, I'd recommend maybe checking out Hamlet from 2000. If you like Bosler men's artistic styles, it director, I would recommend strictly ballroom from 1992 or move on a bruise from 2001 or great guests [01:00:00] be from 2013, which we covered a little bit earlier this summer.
[01:00:04] And yes, by the time you're listening to this, I will be on a mountain. Hopefully. Hopefully reaching the top and, uh, yeah, I am excited for the rest of what we cover
[01:00:15] Jack Oremus: [01:00:15] this summer. Good luck, Emma, can't wait to hear about that story. Maybe we'll have a little anecdote from that on the, uh, the next episode or whenever that may be.
[01:00:25] And I guess with that being said, we also have to just give a heads up that, uh, our recording schedule may or may not be irregular. Now we may have to do it every couple of weeks. So hopefully that would be okay with our audience members go back and just listen to the old episodes. Uh, and in the meantime, send us a few of your favorites, some of the movies that you would like to hear us cover.
[01:00:47] Uh, I think that with a couple of weeks of preparation, we'll be able to provide better shows, better commentary, because we want to give you the best show possible. And I think that that is [01:01:00] the truth. And, um, I can't wait to, to really continue the, the rest of the summer, uh, leading into the fall on. Kind of jumping the gun, but very excited for that.
[01:01:10] And, uh, and yeah, until next time, everybody. Thank you again so much for joining us here. We always love and appreciate having you and we can't wait for you to join us right here on the old soul. Yeah.