Do you know what it means, to miss New Orleans? Celebrate Mardi Gras with Emma and Jack as they hop on down to the Crescent City and watch an epic drama unfold with Vivien Leigh, Marlon Brando, and more. It’s more magic from director Elia Kazan in a film and podcast that will leave you on the edge of your seat.
Do you know what it means, to miss New Orleans? Celebrate Mardi Gras with Emma and Jack as they hop on down to the Crescent City and watch an epic drama unfold with Vivien Leigh, Marlon Brando, and more. It’s more magic from director Elia Kazan in a film and podcast that will leave you on the edge of your seat.
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A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE (1951)
[00:00:00] Jack: [00:00:00] welcome to the old soul movie podcast. You are number one spot for classic movie rewashes and breakdowns. My name is Jack Oremus, and I'm here with my sister, Emma Oremus. We decided that we wanted to make a show that reflected our love and appreciation for classic movies. And while you're here, hopefully we can share that together as an old soul family, we're going to be diving to these movies scene by scene and giving our modern reactions to the films that have influenced generations of people.
[00:00:39] There'll be fun. Facts, heartaches, tears, laughter, and everything in between. And with that being said, sit back. Relax and enjoy the show.
[00:01:00] [00:01:00] hello everyone. And welcome back to another episode of the old soul movie podcast. And tonight we're going to be talking a little bit about a streetcar named desire. Emma, how are you? This very fine evening.
[00:01:14] Emma: [00:01:14] I am so excited. I can't wait to cover this one. It's really one of my favorites. I think it's one of the most dynamic films, but dynamic stories, um, incredible play, but there are some noted differences which we'll get into.
[00:01:30] Yeah. So I, because absolutely the first time I saw this just totally, totally blown away and that's stayed with me for. Uh, what, 10 years now? I don't know. So I just. Yeah, I'm really excited to get into this one. And again, this is another big one ad think I was a little nervous to cover it because I do feel so strongly towards it and admire it so much.
[00:01:56] So I'm a little worried I'm going to forget something, but we'll, [00:02:00] hopefully we covered all the
[00:02:01] Jack: [00:02:01] big stuff. I'm sure we will. But as the old soul fam, I'm sure we'll be shocked to hear this was my first time viewing it. So I have. Yes. Uh, no clue what I was getting myself into when watching this movie. Yes. I know shocking.
[00:02:21] We have this podcast on old cinema and I had not seen this.
[00:02:25] Emma: [00:02:25] Well, I cannot wait to hear
[00:02:27] Jack: [00:02:27] your thoughts then. Oh, I have thoughts on thoughts, bodies, like is ridiculous how crazy this film was and how different. It was from what I was expecting. Um, yeah, I, I had actually no clue what to expect going into it, so I'm very excited to cover it.
[00:02:47] And, um, I think along those lines, there might need to be some warnings that we need to issue. Emma, do you want to maybe expand on that? Yes,
[00:02:57] Emma: [00:02:57] before we begin, I wanted [00:03:00] to make a note that we will be discussing sensitive material relating to sexual violence and suicide among some other sorts of violence.
[00:03:09] Listener discretion is advised and we will be providing mental health hotline information in our description box on whatever medium you listen to this. Good.
[00:03:20] Jack: [00:03:20] I think very warranted to put that in there because. Oh, my gosh, this is an intense movie. And so when you originally slotted this for, you know, like a Valentine's Z sort of released close to Valentine's day,
[00:03:39] Emma: [00:03:39] it was more like Mardi Gras release, kind of like new, new Orleans, more, more like.
[00:03:44] That culture, but like, you know, I dunno the look bill locale with the seasonal Mardi Gras stuff.
[00:03:53] Jack: [00:03:53] It makes more sense because to describe this as a romance or, you know, a nice Valentine's day movie, [00:04:00] I would probably not recommend that on the 14th, but
[00:04:03] Emma: [00:04:03] no, this is more of a, I don't know. I, as new Orleans kind of has its time to shine.
[00:04:09] I think that this is a. Film that, uh, is very distinct and takes place. There. So yeah,
[00:04:17] Jack: [00:04:17] it would be a good matchup. We get new Orleans representation. We love to see it. So, uh, even though this is a crazy film and a lot of craziness goes down, you can really still tell, uh, I think the character of the city and.
[00:04:32] Just sort of how the energy is, because I felt like I was, I felt like I was there. I felt like I was there watching it. Um, yeah, I can't wait to get into it, but Emma, where do we start? Do we start with the fact that maybe, uh, We have an all-star cast or maybe an all-star director. What, where do we start
[00:04:52] Emma: [00:04:52] even backtracking even more?
[00:04:54] I think it's extremely important to recognize that this is adapted from [00:05:00] Tennessee Williams, Pulitzer prize winning 1947. Play of the same name, uh, extremely well received. Play, and it lends itself to a very good setup for a movie. I think that being said, the cast actually in this film mostly does align with the original Broadway cast.
[00:05:22] The only exception being Jessica Tandy, it was the original blanche Dubois and Vivian Lee was not, but she did play blanche. So she did have experience with that role. And, um, Tennessee Williams collaborated with Oscar Saul and Elliot Khazan on the screenplay. Uh, Khazan also actually directed the Broadway stage production.
[00:05:45] So he was also familiar with this film quite a bit. And. Not to get into too many spoilers, I guess, but there are some very, very notable differences [00:06:00] between the 1951 black and white film and the play production. Most of that being attributed to complying with Hollywood's production code, which we have mentioned almost every year and also, uh, the Catholic leaders of decency, very much trying to block this film being made.
[00:06:27] So here's some of the kind of big differences and that this is huge, but in the play, the whole story takes place inside of the qual ski apartment. The movie, it takes place in their apartment, the French quarter, the bowling alley, the pier, a bunch of different kind of new Orleans Z areas. Yes. The themes of this film are pretty intense sex, violence, alcohol, um, a lot of recurring things that show up that are quite pivotal actually to the story.
[00:06:56] And some of those heavier things are [00:07:00] used very prominently in this film. Yeah,
[00:07:02] Jack: [00:07:02] we're definitely going to be leaning on you and your expertise, Emma, to just understand what is going on in this movie. Uh, even a tactic, I texted you after it saying that I felt like the, uh, the Michael Scott, Jeff, you know, why don't you just explain it to me?
[00:07:17] Like I'm five. I felt like I was, there was a lot of confusion on my end, so, uh, don't feel bad. Viewers that if you are watching this like me for the first time, probably not, because I'm sure you have already, but, um, if you can go back to maybe the first time you watched it or even revisit it right now, um, it has just such a different pacing and style than what you see from modern movies.
[00:07:42] That, uh, it is a little hard to decipher what's going on, especially with the production code. I guess the deeper general themes. I not to say that movies now are deep, but I feel like this speaks on a few different levels and, um, [00:08:00] and yeah, it's just a crazy, crazy ride. So yeah, we will be leaning on you heavily.
[00:08:06] Emma: [00:08:06] Oh gosh. Hopefully I can, hopefully I can help. Um, but yeah, so other big. Differences on that note. Uh, blanches husband dies of suicide after she discovers that he is gay. This is very much removed from the film and she makes it seem like she is just, uh, I guess, resentful at him being a more, a feminine or softer guy in the
[00:08:35] Jack: [00:08:35] film.
[00:08:36] Which didn't make any sense. It didn't make any sense,
[00:08:39] Emma: [00:08:39] I think have just suicide. But I think if you're familiar with the play and you know, the actual context, you know, you can put two and two together there. So. I don't know, she does makes a big statement about him revealing his sexual orientation, uh, without saying it.
[00:08:56] So it's there, but you know, you gotta keep it [00:09:00] an era and IO and place them links together. And then, uh, furthermore, the rape scene is far more ambiguous in the film that to the point where you might not have even understood that that's what happened. I
[00:09:15] Jack: [00:09:15] didn't know. I actually did not know. And. Totally understandable.
[00:09:19] I feel like, unless I'm just completely oblivious, I thought that she just blacked out when he lunged at her or, you know, maybe that was just like the fight between them. And then I was waiting to see what happened and like, was it a dream. I don't. Yeah, there were a lot of question marks for me. So I think maybe for some people you just automatically go there.
[00:09:41] I guess I didn't. So yeah,
[00:09:44] Emma: [00:09:44] the big difference was the end of the play. Stella is distraught and she stays with Stanley and he consoles her. It almost seems like they might hook up again. And in the film, it's still a. [00:10:00] Blame Stanley. And then she says out loud that she's leaving him and never coming back.
[00:10:06] And this was of course in compliance with the production code, because it required you to punish the rapist, uh, the punishment, this case being her, leaving him. So. The reason she leaves him in the film is because it was demanded by the production code. Yes. And, but you know what? Stay stay with us until the very end, because I've got some thoughts on this.
[00:10:33] Yeah. I mean, this was actually high, heavily censored, to be honest by the production code so much so that Elliot Khazan almost walked off. And the one that they were most upset about was the production code being against the rape of blanche. And they stated this or Williams, Tennessee Williams stated this, the rape of blanche by Stanley is a pivotal integral truth in the play, without which the play loses its [00:11:00] meaning, which is the ravish
[00:11:01] Of the tender and sensitive, the delicate by the Savage and brutal forces of modern society. It is a poetic plea for comprehension. So this rape, which yes, it's a very serious issue in real life, but it is used for a symbolic purpose in this play. And it actually a very deep, deep rooted issue. So. There you go.
[00:11:25] And I have to say, okay, I have seen the play, like an actual play production of this. And I have seen the movie a thousand times. And. I love them both. I think the play is stronger because of the lack of censorship. To be honest, it hit me a lot harder. I guess my, I got to see that production, but this movie is still extremely impactful and I have to commend them for working around these limitations.
[00:11:53] Yeah. I just, if you do get the chance to see the play or even read the play, I highly recommend it because it's a [00:12:00] really cool, exciting experience. And I will say even watching this. It has a lot of play like qualities. It's a lot of confinement. Uh, even even set wise, they made the set smaller as the film, but continued to increase that feeling of claustrophobia and kind of stuckness and tension, like a little pressure cooker.
[00:12:21] And you definitely feel that you feel like you're watching something you're getting sucked in and it does put pressure on you as an audience.
[00:12:30] Jack: [00:12:30] Wow, this is intense. Like I, it is so tense. It almost feels like we're in a little pressure cooker ourselves within this episode. I love it. But, um, but yeah, I'm a so insightful.
[00:12:42] I feel like you, you mentioned a few of the actors. If you were the actresses, maybe we can dive into the cast a little bit.
[00:12:49] Emma: [00:12:49] Absolutely. I mean, nine members of the original Broadway cast, which would be Marlon Brando, Marla. Marlin I'm choking [00:13:00] Marlin Brando, Kim Hunter, Karl Malden, Rudy bonds, Nick Dennis peg, hilarious, Richard Garrick and dear Edna, Thomas all repeated their roles in this film extremely unusual for the time.
[00:13:14] And quite frankly, not really seen very often today. Vivian Lee, like I mentioned earlier, was chosen over Jessica Tandy, the Broadway. Blanche because of her star quality. We have to keep in mind that she was already an Oscar winner and this actually was used to their advantage while filming a bit, uh, Vivian Lee felt very initially out of the loop.
[00:13:40] When she joined the cast who had already been working together quite a bit, formed quite a strong bond, all knew each other and Elliot Khazan did kind of exploit these feelings a bit to make her feel a little bit more isolated, which is something that we've kind of seen. Directors do. And other projects like [00:14:00] using the real life relationships to parallel what's going on in the art form.
[00:14:05] And, Oh, this might be of interest to some of you old soul long-term listeners. But, uh, the blanche Dubois character was originally written for Ms. Tallulah Bankhead. Uh, and she actually ended up playing that role later on, but might be of interest. Now, this is interesting also because this is. Marlon, Brando's only his second movie role, and this is the film that for sure propelled him to start.
[00:14:34] Um, it also propelled TC shirts to start up there. They burned out tight fitting. T-shirts really available back then. So they had to buy one continuously, wash it to shrink it and then like sew it back even tighter. When doing fittings. So it was really tight against those
[00:14:53] Jack: [00:14:53] muscles. Oh boy. Oh boy. Does it look good?
[00:14:57] And I, I'm not gonna lie [00:15:00] every single time he was on screen. Impossible not to look at his arms, impossible things or pythons bulging out of his t-shirt. Um, again, fans of the old soul movie pod. This Christmas, when I was asking for presents, I was looking for t-shirts that made me look like Marlon Brando.
[00:15:19] I can't say that for sure. I do, but I can promise you this. I did a few extra pull-ups in the last 24 hours since I watched that movie because Marlin Brando and his physique in this film. So there you go. Marlin Brando. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. That's all I have to say.
[00:15:39] Emma: [00:15:39] Oh, I bet a bunch of men did in 1951 when they saw this.
[00:15:44] But yeah, this was really the start, the start of it all. And I mean, look at Marlon Brando, his career, one of the best actors, if not the best of all time. Absolutely incredible. So unbelievably talented. And this is just one, one glimpse of it, but [00:16:00] yeah, really terrific. Start to one's career in the film industry, I would say.
[00:16:04] And. Also something very unique about this movie is that it's the first ever jazz oriented film score for a dramatic picture. Yeah. And the score, again, really aligned with that new Orleans culture that sort of, I don't know. Sole Trina's and it again. Yeah. Yeah. But like Southern flair and this film is really the film that kind of paved the way for other jazz spaced scores in the future.
[00:16:37] Jack: [00:16:37] Mm. I think you could look at new Orleans and see it in a few different ways. Like you could, you could definitely make the argument that it's almost kind of like this dark city with all the rain and sort of the. I guess more metaphysical aspects of it. And I feel like the streetcar named desire really taps into that.
[00:16:58] Well, and that, that [00:17:00] sort of maybe yeah. Shadowy
[00:17:02] Emma: [00:17:02] side. Yeah, absolutely. There's definitely a lot of light and dark mimicking fantasy reality and the spill, we will deep dive into those themes soon. But yeah, ultimately this was a highly successful film when it came out, uh, commercially and critically, I believe it had a $1.8 million budget and then made 8 million at the North American box office.
[00:17:26] So I'd say that's pretty good margins there. And, uh, yeah, the, the censorship did not destroy this film success. I mean, the Catholic Legion of decency was really threatening to halt this movies. Or Elise basically. And yeah, so they were going to give it a condemned rating. And I think the production code sensors made 68 script changes from the original Broadway writing of it.
[00:17:57] Yeah. And then even more cuts, I [00:18:00] think maybe after Catholic lesion, decency had their say,
[00:18:04] Jack: [00:18:04] wow, Yeah, crazy, crazy craziness. Almost 70 years ago. 70 years ago, right. It'll be seven years in September.
[00:18:15] Emma: [00:18:15] Yeah. And what I think is extra wild or, I mean, it seemed like there were some compromises that I actually would have been really interested to seeing what would have happened from a.
[00:18:25] Kind of film history aspect if they had come to fruition, but Elliot Khazan actually tried to pitch the ability to show his uncut version and the censored version and the audience could then choose which version they would like to see. However, a Warner said no.
[00:18:46] Jack: [00:18:46] Yeah. And everyone would pick the, uh, Deon censored version.
[00:18:48] Anyway, let's be real. Let's be real. Right.
[00:18:52] Emma: [00:18:52] Well, we'll get into it. We'll get into it. But yeah, ultimately none of this did that much [00:19:00] damage to it. So yeah, I mean really fascinating. I would've, I would have been really interested to see what if it would have happened if an uncut version and a cut version were both released.
[00:19:10] I think it would've changed the trajectory of how we got to the disease disillusion.
[00:19:20] Jack: [00:19:20] I was going to say yeah, production code. Yeah. That would've, I think happened a lot faster just yeah. But, um, but yeah. Awesome. Awesome stuff. And this is really small little random thing I have to mention because it's kind of driving me crazy.
[00:19:33] But Kim Hunter actress who plays Stella. Yes. I feel like she kind of looks like Jessica Tandy. The actress that plays blonch on the, in the play and it's kind of driving me wild,
[00:19:49] Emma: [00:19:49] definitely good casting. I mean, certainly casting directors do look at that. If you're a physical appearance, um, if you look like you could be raised and fed under the same roof growing, [00:20:00] uh, and you know, what was actually kind of interesting now that you say that.
[00:20:04] There was one moment and I'm going to forget which now, but it was kind of towards like the middle and, um, but there was one moment where I looked at Kim Hunter and I was like, you know, she kind of does look a little like Vivian Lee, but, but not, not really, not a ton, but like I just, I just, there was like weird some face that she made and I was like, I can kind of see.
[00:20:27] Yeah. And that was interesting to me. Yeah.
[00:20:30] Jack: [00:20:30] I mean sometimes like, You, you can have bases that are so dissimilar, but you know, it only takes one small little, I don't know, movement maybe to see the resemblance. And so, I mean, that could just be us connecting the dots in some type of weird way. But, um, but yeah, I definitely understand what you're saying there, but I'm on, I think we also are missing out on mentioning one other big thing.
[00:20:58] Do you want to talk about, or I guess [00:21:00] we should say big things with an S yes.
[00:21:04] Emma: [00:21:04] And that would be that this was, uh, just. Massive winner at the Academy, awards it for so many awards, including best picture, best director, best actor, best actress, best supporting actor, best supporting actress. Best screenplay, best art direction.
[00:21:22] Best cinematography, best costume design. Best scoring of a dramatic or comedy picture and best sound recording. And of those nominations, Vivian Lee won best actress, Karl Malden won best supporting actor, Kim Hunter, one best supporting actress, uh, and Richard Day and George James Hopkins, one best art direction, black and white.
[00:21:45] Now that's. I, I can't say if this is the first, but I could for sure. Say this is one of the first best picture nominees to have both of their best supporting actor and actress win. And I'm going to say it. You know what? I think it's a [00:22:00] darn shame that Marlon Brando didn't win that year. And now I know that was a very tight race that year.
[00:22:05] Um, I believe Montgomery Cliff's was up that year. Also did not win. They voted for each other.
[00:22:12] Jack: [00:22:12] I remember that. I remember us talking about that. I believe on the Montgomery Clift actor, spotlight.
[00:22:18] Emma: [00:22:18] Uh, that was a tight race, but you know what
[00:22:20] Jack: [00:22:20] I think you, while, you know, you want to know why that was a tough race.
[00:22:25] It's because. They were going up against the African queen with Humphrey Bogart. Very, very solid year. I would say for the best actor category. That's a tough one. That is a good one. A place in the sun. Hilarious movie. There really aren't. So another great episode, if you guys want to take a, I don't know.
[00:22:52] Trip down memory lane on the old soul movie podcast, a place in the sun. Oh, go listen to that. That's a great one. So, um, [00:23:00] yeah. Oh my gosh. We've covered the cast. We covered the accolades. We've covered a little bit of the background.
[00:23:04] Emma: [00:23:04] This is a very, very important film. Extremely groundbreaking. Maybe if not, my favorite of Elliot works.
[00:23:13] I don't know. This movie is just so good. Um, the place so good. It's just. Terrific. So I can't wait.
[00:23:22] Jack: [00:23:22] I can't either. And I can't wait to hear your thoughts and do I have some thoughts? All right. So do we start? Here we go. So. Our story begins as blanche. Debois a middle-aged high school English teacher arrives in new Orleans.
[00:23:41] She takes a streetcar named desire to the French quarter where her sister Stella and her husband Stanley Kowalski live in a dilapidated tenement apartment blanche claims to be on leave from her teaching job due to her nerves and wants to stay with Stella and [00:24:00] Stanley. Blanches demure refined manner is a stark contrast to Stanley's crude brutish behavior, making them mutually wary.
[00:24:08] And intaglio mystic, Stella welcomes having her sister as a guest, but blanche often patronizes and criticizes her. Ooh.
[00:24:17] Emma: [00:24:17] All right. Well, look at this steamy intro. I feel totally transported to new Orleans, this black and white too. It's the jazz music. It's
[00:24:29] Jack: [00:24:29] I immediately, I immediately started smiling.
[00:24:31] Because it is such a great introduction to new Orleans. I feel like that is so authentic, even through the black and white and even just seeing it in the black and white, I feel like now you get sort of caught up in the, uh, I don't know, maybe the neon signs of bourbon and the colorfulness of the jazz, but seeing it in black and white is Def it's different, but it's just.
[00:24:51] Such a vibe
[00:24:53] Emma: [00:24:53] and definitely matches with the tone of the drama. That's about to unfold. And now this [00:25:00] is probably one of my favorite fun facts about the whole movie, but the sailor she meets is played by an actor named Mickey Kuhn. Now this actor, Mickey Kuhn also played the little boy. Bo Wilkes and gone with the wind, which of course Vivian Lee famously played Scarlet O'Hara.
[00:25:17] And now apparently when she found this out, uh, she invited him to her dressing room and they talked for half an hour. And then in later interviews, Mickey said that Vivian Lee was one of the nicest ladies that he'd ever met. So. Really cool. And that would actually also make Mickey Kuhn, the only male actor that appeared in both gone with the wind and a streetcar named desire with Vivian Lee, her two Oscar winning performances.
[00:25:46] Jack: [00:25:46] Amazing. That's amazing. No, no other word, honestly. It's
[00:25:52] Emma: [00:25:52] uh, yeah, I think, I just think that's pretty fun and we get. An immediate impression of blanche [00:26:00] that she is more on the fragile side. She doesn't exactly fit into this wild and free new
[00:26:07] Jack: [00:26:07] Orleans. Yeah. Right off the bat. I mean, for me, it just felt like blanche was very.
[00:26:14] Very anxious, very on edge. I think that was sort of my first impression, uh, uh, blanche and then Stella of course I feel like is, uh, such an interesting character, but Stella, I felt like was, I mean, a little bit more stable. I think she was kind of worried. I think that's what I felt right off the bat with Stella was just, um, obviously how much she cares about blanche, but, uh, I dunno, just this really sort of unique dynamic between the two sisters where you have bland shoe does seem a little bit more refined right off the bat and then Stella, who.
[00:26:52] I dunno, maybe she's not afraid to get a little sweaty in the quarter. I don't know how to, how to put it, but rougher
[00:26:58] Emma: [00:26:58] around the edges. Yeah, [00:27:00] sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. So yeah, on that note, I think you did bring up an interesting vocab where there with like being worried about blanche and I kind of see.
[00:27:13] I see these traits. Furthermore, I mean, blanches, we can already tell very self-conscious, especially about how she looks a little materialistic. And then in terms of Stella, what I'm getting right off the bat with her character, from when I'm hearing her talk. Is that she is dealing with codependency. So some codependency vibes, especially in regards to how emotional she got when she talks about being apart from Stanley.
[00:27:45] No, on that note blanche. When she's talking about the, um, like leave of absence with her nerves and stuff, we get the first hint that blanched experienced an alcohol addiction. Definitely as an audience watch and [00:28:00] Mark how that intake changes throughout the film. Now codependency, which I believe Stella's experiencing, uh, is addiction adjacent.
[00:28:10] So
[00:28:11] Jack: [00:28:11] that's what does that mean?
[00:28:13] Emma: [00:28:13] It's kind of in the same family. I would say this like dependency, this need,
[00:28:18] Jack: [00:28:18] yeah. Slightly different. I guess, I mean,
[00:28:22] Emma: [00:28:22] I guess, I guess some people might say codependency as being addicted to like a person. Okay.
[00:28:29] Jack: [00:28:29] So they're kind of like cousins, would you say? Or
[00:28:32] Emma: [00:28:32] yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's um, so there's like, for example, there's alcohol anonymous meetings.
[00:28:38] There's also, co-dependency anonymous meetings that you can attend. Okay. And those are called Coda if you're interested. Yes. So both like a reliance, they're both kind of reliance people in
[00:28:52] Jack: [00:28:52] my opinion. Got it. I think it was just important to make that distinction, but
[00:28:57] Emma: [00:28:57] yeah. Uh, yes. And, uh, [00:29:00] just a quick note, I mean, Vivian Lee is a British woman and I got to say, this is like, Time number two, that she's nailing the epitome of a Southern Belle archetype role.
[00:29:13] So I'm just already off the bat. Very impressed with her acting.
[00:29:19] Jack: [00:29:19] Oh, absolutely. It's great. I mean, the acting all around. There's a reason why pretty much every single actor in this was at least nominated for an Academy award. So, um, the performances all around are amazing. And I honestly, I mean, this is kind of beside the plot, but I really want to rewatch it again.
[00:29:38] Um, just to, yeah, just to honestly have a clue for one, but, uh, I think be able to appreciate all the small. Aspects of it. Cause it really is just such a seamless transition from start to finish. Like when you mentioned, you know, noticing the small details, like her alcohol consumption, huge note that immediately, I remember [00:30:00] from the very first drink where she's like, I don't have more than one to where she's at by the end of it.
[00:30:05] So, um, crazy stuff to watch and it's like, it happens before you even know it. And so like is an hat's off.
[00:30:13] Emma: [00:30:13] Absolutely really quick. This is our first glimpse of Stanley and the bowling alley fight. And we see him from very far away and it's not even clear which one he is, in my opinion,
[00:30:27] Jack: [00:30:27] if you didn't know who Marlon Brando was.
[00:30:29] Yes,
[00:30:29] Emma: [00:30:29] exactly. It was in 1951.
[00:30:31] Jack: [00:30:31] You would, right, right, right, right. You can just tell that it's a rowdy bunch. Yeah, definitely. Um, And that mindset of the 1950s of, I guess boys will be boys, which I like yak and my mouth every time.
[00:30:46] Emma: [00:30:46] We'll definitely, um, unfold, some toxic
[00:30:49] Jack: [00:30:49] masculinity. This is like a treasure trove of toxic masculinity.
[00:30:56] It is an absurd amount of toxic masculinity. Just you wait old [00:31:00] soul fam. We move on. Yes, I'm ready. So it is revealed that blanche and Stella's family estate bell rev was lost to creditors blanche widowed at a young age after her husband's suicide is broke and had nowhere to go except to her sister.
[00:31:16] When Stanley suspects, blanche may be hiding inheritance money, she shows some paperwork. Proving the estate was foreclosed on Stanley looking for further proof, knock some of blanches private papers to the floor. Weeping. She gathers them saying their poems from her dead husband Stanley explains. He was only looking out for his family.
[00:31:35] Then announces Stella is pregnant. Yikes.
[00:31:38] Emma: [00:31:38] I mean, we get further background into that. Blanch and stellar are riches to rags type of girls, and that blanche holds a lot of resentment towards Stella. Also, I didn't write this down, but I want to say before I forgot, uh, their family's estate they'll rev. It translates to beautiful dream in French.
[00:31:57] Look at that symbolism right [00:32:00] there. Boom, boom. So you're kidding. You're getting a lot of cool, uh, naming. Here and then the scene. Oh my Lord. When blanche and Stanley meet for the first time now, what, what are your thoughts?
[00:32:19] Jack: [00:32:19] Okay. My thoughts. And honestly, what I thought going into this film was I thought this was going to be a romance between Stanley.
[00:32:30] And blanche, I thought that this was like the beginning of everything starting for them because I'm totally getting attraction vibes. I think at least from blanche, maybe Stanley's kind of being a little teas, um, with this t-shirt and, you know, can I just take my shirt off here a little quick? Um, this is like, To me textbook flirting.
[00:32:57] I don't know, maybe not textbook, [00:33:00] but, um, I don't know for Stanley, I feel like this is his bread and butter. You know, the arms, everything, the shirt, this wasn't, this wasn't his first rodeo, I think with that routine. And so. I am sitting here just waiting for the sparks to fly. And lo and behold, it goes in a completely opposite direction.
[00:33:20] Um, one where he basically like hates her. And so, yeah, I was very lost and confused. I was like, what just happened? Um, Yeah, it was, it was pretty crazy for me. What about you?
[00:33:32] Emma: [00:33:32] I mean, okay. I was, so the first time I even actually watched this movie ever, I was in high school is for one of my English history combo classes.
[00:33:41] And I'll never forget before my English teacher started playing the movie, she was. Talking about Marlon Brando and how he just like has this, uh, his character has this extreme sexual energy about him. And I'll be honest up [00:34:00] until that point in my life in high school, I was really only familiar with Marlon Brando, mostly from the godfather.
[00:34:06] And so when she said that I'm picturing, you know, Don over this old and I was like, And then, uh, this scene comes on and we actually like get to meet, meet Stanley up, close it. I'll never forget the girl next to me, like turns next to me. And she was like, Oh my God, he's hot. Or just like shocked. Yeah. So I could imagine being an audience, seeing him for the first time and totally being swooning.
[00:34:36] But this first meeting between them, uh, I like the first time I even saw it. I thought it was the most sexual tension I'd ever seen in my life. Uh, Marlon Brando, just what a man, like he's being so forward with his delivery. Just major applause, pulling that off and
[00:34:55] Jack: [00:34:55] Oh, book is on again, the master of masculinity.
[00:35:00] [00:35:00] Yes.
[00:35:00] Emma: [00:35:00] It's got to say, gotta say. And the contrast between blanche and Stanley, it's like an explosion. They're like, whatever that country song is like fire and gasoline. Um, he's so he's so yeah, brutish and she's so prim and proper. Yes, exactly. So the tension that's between them, it feels. Sexual. And it's weird because it borders between hate and attraction through the entirety of the film.
[00:35:37] And that line is so thin and this whole scene is the setup for. One of the biggest themes and questions throughout the film in terms of what is masculinity, how do people view it? How is it perceived in society and Stanley personifies masculinity as being aggressive, [00:36:00] animalistic, and dominant. And we will look at other male characters and see how they portray masculinity, but that is, he's like the champion for that.
[00:36:12] Jack: [00:36:12] Toxicity.
[00:36:14] Emma: [00:36:14] Yeah,
[00:36:17] Jack: [00:36:17] sure. I mean, I feel like we could call it a bunch of things, but it's different, you know, hearing it from us versus seeing it on the screen. So, um, yeah, I mean,
[00:36:29] Emma: [00:36:29] it's followed up by one of another favorite kind of artistic direction that I like with Stanley asking. Blanche about her marriage. And it really captures how triggering that was for her.
[00:36:43] His voice gets very far away sounding. We get the carnival music at a gunshot. And so it sets up this little mystery, uh, in such a beautiful and brilliant way. So we know that she has a trauma in her past, but we don't know the details. [00:37:00] And yeah, it, it put us in her head in a really impactful
[00:37:04] Jack: [00:37:04] way. Right.
[00:37:04] And it's the first time that we sort of experienced this inner dialogue within blanches head, right? Yeah.
[00:37:13] Emma: [00:37:13] This is her revisiting reality also. Definitely. Yeah. Also, I don't know if you caught this Jack and this is the first time I ever took notice of this line, but they mentioned going to gala terroirs.
[00:37:30] For dinner, which is a very nice restaurant, new Orleans. I've never been there, but I just recently watched top chef new Orleans and one of the contestants was a chef there and I learned it's very prestigious. It I'm guessing on that note is probably out of their price range. So that was like contextually, knowing that now.
[00:37:52] I thought that that added to this, uh, reality fantasy, keeping up appearances,
[00:37:58] Jack: [00:37:58] materialism. [00:38:00] Yeah. Gala tours, probably one of the best meals I've ever had ever. And, um, yeah, I mean, I think that is just such great little authenticity to new Orleans and to, to have, you know, that included in it, someone who just loves the city, I think that's.
[00:38:18] Amazing. I love that, uh, attention to detail, but what do you think of the Napoleonic code? I think the Napoleonic codes is a bunch of do-do. It's a bunch of Cochise, I think. Um, I think that just gives Stanley, uh, I guess, permission to be nosy into the Dubois. I guess assets. And so, I mean, of course I feel like it just, it always sort of favors whoever is on the, uh, the bottom side of the totem pole.
[00:38:48] But, um, but yeah, I feel like the way that he goes about it is very, you know, brutish, thuggish, you know, you, you kind of are attracted to him right off the [00:39:00] bat. Cause you know, he's, he's just so good looking, but then, you know, you've watched, uh, I guess his actions and then it's like, You're so conflicted, you know, it's like you want, so that sort of like him, uh, there are flashes of him maybe being a good person, but you don't know if it's the real him or if it's him putting on an act.
[00:39:21] So he's an enigma. Like he is an enigma and. I dunno, he's complex.
[00:39:27] Emma: [00:39:27] I have to say I do applaud the casting of him, uh, on Broadway. That's where it originated. He was originally considered too young into handsome for the role of Stanley. But I think it just further promotes how. You can get sucked into someone who acts the way he does when you look that way and have that energy about you,
[00:39:50] Jack: [00:39:50] that t-shirt fitting that tailor.
[00:39:54] Emma: [00:39:54] Right. And I guess, uh, some interesting lines here, uh, the, uh, Vivian blanche [00:40:00] says a line about how women's charm is 50% illusion. And now this is kind of. Just one flash of another main theme here of appearances. Now Stanley counters this and says, he kind of thinks it is what it is. Like a woman knows when she's hot and yeah, like.
[00:40:20] Reality is just reality. And blanche here is all about the fronts. So you see that they already have a different mindset. And then also on top of that, he's going through her stuff, which honestly is definitely, probably all fake, like, you know, the riots don't Tiara, but he is. Seeing it is, uh, maybe real and trying to villainize her.
[00:40:41] And again, yeah, we get the soul true jazz music, anytime they're together, mimicking this tension between them, the borderline attraction borderline hates. So yeah, very, very, uh,
[00:40:53] Jack: [00:40:53] intense. Yeah. I mean, jazz is chaos. I feel like it's reactionary. Um, I think that's what I love about [00:41:00] how. You know, the music and the sounds come together with, uh, everything that's happening.
[00:41:05] Interpersonally. I love it. But, um, but yeah. Shall we continue? Okay. So next we see blanche meeting Stanley's friend Mitch who's courteous manner is a contrast to Stanley's. Other pals. Mitch is attracted to blanches flirtatious charm, and a romance blossoms during a poker night with his friends Stanley explodes in a drunken rage.
[00:41:29] Striking Stella and ending the game blanche and Stella flea upstairs to neighbor Eunice's apartment. After his anger, subsides, Stanley remorseful. He bellows for Stella from the courtyard below. Irresistibly drawn by her physical passion for him. She goes to Stanley who carries her off to bed the next morning, blanche urges, Stella to leave Stanley calling him a subhuman animal, Stella disagrees, and wants to stay.
[00:41:58] Emma: [00:41:58] Well, the [00:42:00] plot thickens or more the characterization thickens.
[00:42:05] Uh, yes. Uh, blanches preoccupation with her appearance is very prominent here. And, uh, it's, you know, I mean, like anything, it's a little up to interpretation, what the audience thinks of that, but. Consider this set, her fake appearances are like a guard and it begs the question to guard against what exactly is there something about her inner most self that is ugly to her that she's trying to hide underneath a facade.
[00:42:38] Jack: [00:42:38] Spoiler alert.
[00:42:45] Maybe yes. Maybe no, I guess big spoiler alert. Yes.
[00:42:51] Emma: [00:42:51] Um, and then on top of that, we can introduce to this Mitch character who I also think is a pretty well-written character,
[00:43:00] [00:42:59] Jack: [00:42:59] Mitch, Mitch so much.
[00:43:02] Emma: [00:43:02] Yeah. He has a very different type of masculinity. Appearance wise, he appears as something, a little softer, and that is kind of her safety net there.
[00:43:19] Yeah. And again, we get more appearance stuff, the ball, but the lantern over it, it mimics his appearing, it not liking something bear or the bare truth, expose the light, exposed any truth exposed in any capacity. So once again, doing that and then. Stanley's masculinity. Uh, we see also encompasses that behavior of control when he shuts off the music, when he's threatened, it builds.
[00:43:47] And indeed it explodes during this poker
[00:43:50] Jack: [00:43:50] game. What do we think is Stanley's issue would, if you add on, based on your very limited knowledge of him, [00:44:00] like really what is his issue? I feel like he. Is just a frustrated person. I'm like, that's kind of obvious, but like, do you see anything deeper? Like within.
[00:44:12] Him as a person.
[00:44:14] Emma: [00:44:14] So I think his masculinity and how he expresses it is very much aligned with a sense of power. And when that power is threatened, he has to act out in a violent way. Okay. So this conflict is really between him and Mitch. Who's another male he's kind of like ticked off that Mitch, isn't getting back to poker.
[00:44:36] And what he does is really lash out at the women. Uh, You know, he turns, he breaks the radio. He yells at them really. I mean, he yells for Mitch, but it's really the women who suffer here. So I would say that this is sort of a patriarchal sort of display that, that, um, fear of losing that [00:45:00] hierarchy over others, maybe especially women or fragile people, which we are can sometimes feminize when we gender emotions.
[00:45:09] Um, Yeah, that's not, that's not accurate. This is just like, this is someone's art piece. Uh, yeah. And then we get the very, very famous.
[00:45:26] Jack: [00:45:26] I was waiting. I was waiting for it the entire time, you know, I mean, it happens relatively quickly or relatively, you know, soon in the movie, but, um, Oh my gosh, great. You know, I loved it. I didn't love the circus stands behind it, but you know, you'll love to see Marlin Brando yelling with his, you know, torn shirt and the, I don't even know if it was, I can't remember if it was raining or not, but you know, just him screaming to the heavens for Stella.
[00:45:54] And then it's like, I don't even know what I'd call it. It's like the part in the reference, but [00:46:00] the song from Sarah, Jessica Parker and Hocus Pocus, uh, which calls, you know, the young children's for her, this, you know, yell is like a, I don't even know, it's like a beacon or something for Stella to come. And so it's like, I don't even know he's irresistible.
[00:46:19] Emma: [00:46:19] Yeah. I mean the humidity amps up here in more ways than one, I feel like. And in this scene we get the first glimpse at the full circle cycle of abuse, the power and control wheel here. He hits her. She runs, he ELLs for her looking all Marlon Brando. She runs back right. This is a perfect snippet of codependency and toxicity amplified.
[00:46:46] And this also highlights another, just major difference between the two women and Stella thinks that this animalistic masculinity, quality of him is sexy and blanche thinks it [00:47:00] is scary.
[00:47:02] Jack: [00:47:02] Yeah, this is my question. And I didn't. When blanche was telling Stella about how Stanley's an animal doesn't Stanley hear that, like he hears that doesn't he, I couldn't tell based on the edit, how close he was.
[00:47:17] Like, that's what I was confused on. Whether or not he heard that because there are some things that happen after this moment that lead me to think that Stanley heard her and like change some of his behaviors to semi Gaslight blanche.
[00:47:33] Emma: [00:47:33] Um, I can't remember exactly the proximity, but what I can say, if he did hear this conversation, he now views blanche is a threat to undermine his power.
[00:47:44] Jack: [00:47:44] Yeah. Cause what I remember happening was blanche, you know, talking to Stella about Stanley being an animal. And then the next few times we see Stanley, he is. More dressed up. Like he's more prim and proper. If [00:48:00] I can even say that, like he's wearing a shirt and tie, like he is generally generally more well-groomed.
[00:48:08] Um, so I didn't know if he did that deliberately to sort of act as like. The antithesis of what she was saying to, I don't even know, like, make it more obvious to Stella that he's not like that it was just, I was doing like mental gymnastics, if you couldn't tell by how I'm talking about it. But yeah,
[00:48:28] Emma: [00:48:28] if anything, I would think that that kind of change in out first.
[00:48:34] I mean, I still think he could, he looks a little bit, you know, street ish, but. Well, thank you. No comment.
[00:48:46] I, you know, I, he, I will say, yeah, he does look a little bit more, more put together, I guess. And if anything, I would think that that's a tactic to mess with blanches. If you have things to screw with her [00:49:00] view of him and things
[00:49:02] Jack: [00:49:02] like that. Yeah. That's what I thought. At least I could be wrong, but. That's just one guy, you know, that's just me talking here.
[00:49:11] So as weeks pass into mine, tension mounts between blanche and Stanley blanche is hopeful about Mitch, but anxiety and alcoholism have her teetering on mental collapse while anticipating a marriage proposal. Finally, Mitch says they should be together. Meanwhile Stanley uncovers, blanches, hidden history of mental instability, promiscuity, and being fired for sleeping with an underage student Stanley then passes this news on to Mitch and full knowledge.
[00:49:41] This will end blanches marriage prospects, and leave her with no future Stella angrily blame Stanley for the catastrophic revelation, but their fight is interrupted when Stella goes in to labor. Well, again, um, [00:50:00] The relationship between Mitch and blanche. Uh, you know, I'm here for it. I can't say that this is my favorite.
[00:50:08] Uh, Move your relationship of all time. But I do like Mitch, I like him as a big softie, a nice proud six one. What is he like two Oh seven or something? Softy who is proud of his workouts and stuff. And I'm just so jealous that he has a gym to go to as I sit here during quarantine still. But, um, but yeah, I'm, I'm what are, what are your thoughts to all this happening?
[00:50:33] Emma: [00:50:33] Yeah, I mean, again, Mitch is just. Interesting to me, he has this softness about him. You can tell he has a fear of loneliness, also, maybe a little of codependency issues there too. Yeah. At the same time, we do see some hints of. The Stan leanness and him as well. But I mean, we see the Stanley's [00:51:00] masculine energy extending beyond him.
[00:51:01] I mean, we see the neighbor chasing his wife, right. Something like
[00:51:04] Jack: [00:51:04] that, right?
[00:51:07] Emma: [00:51:07] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, wash for in all the male characters here, like, is this something that meant just naturally revert to, uh, Just to, it's just, that's a hypothetical and, uh, or that's a rhetorical question. Uh, yes. So interesting.
[00:51:26] I also, I don't know why I love their conversation about their astrological science that he's. A Capricorn, but you know what else? He might be an area's rising. I don't
[00:51:35] Jack: [00:51:35] know, energy Aries.
[00:51:39] Emma: [00:51:39] Um, and then she's a Virgo, which means they're both earth science, which interesting, interesting there. And then in return to this encounter, he.
[00:51:51] Hints that he knows about her sexual activity. Now sex is another theme throughout this movie. Uh, mostly being [00:52:00] a force of someone's downfall. Yeah. Like when Stanley and still asleep together after their fights, I mean, it keeps their toxic relationship going and it's just not going to end pretty. We can.
[00:52:13] Assume that, and it's revealed that blanche was promiscuous and this threatens her reputation being destroyed in her new living area. So we see this as being like a negative thing. Yeah. And also she presents us so prim and proper, but we are seeing these character traits of her sleeping around and her drinking now, like, okay.
[00:52:37] So the drinking is kind of, we can see becoming her escape from her problems, um, including her poor state of her mental health and that need to escape increases throughout the movie. If you haven't caught onto that. So, yeah, the drinking is her escape. Now the sleeping around is also kind of like an escape, um, like hand [00:53:00] in hand with the alcohol.
[00:53:01] She tries to find this romantic, beautiful life, but in the end, the sex leads to her to structure and yeah. We'll get more into that later, but also know how we do see multiple sides of alcohol for blanche it's to run away from something and for the men it's to kind of fuel their aggression.
[00:53:19] Jack: [00:53:19] Yeah. I think that there's a lot to, uh, to unpack there.
[00:53:23] And, um, I cannot stop thinking though about one scene in particular, and that is the seduction from blanche of the. What was it like a newspaper boy, a delivery boy, a young man, uh, very awkward, uh, scene, but one that I want to talk about, I mean, I kind of made, uh, an ill humor joke that it was kind of funny.
[00:53:51] Uh, it's kind of. Wrong in a way it is wrong because we don't know how young this kid is, but she's what like a [00:54:00] 30 something year old woman. And he might be what, like 15, 16, maybe. I don't know.
[00:54:06] Emma: [00:54:06] I mean, definitely hard to tell, but again, uh, for, from an artistic point of view, showing, showing this lending to her destruction, furthermore, her trying to be all seductive and.
[00:54:20] Jack: [00:54:20] It just does not look like he wanted any piece of that and it felt a little coerced,
[00:54:25] Emma: [00:54:25] but I think you do bring up a good point because it kind of goes hand in hand with her background. And when she is on her date with Mitch, um, the sweet, naive fool. Who actually does have some masculine, animalistic qualities coming out, uh, like when he picked her up and stuff.
[00:54:42] And like, it seemed like he was looking for for more than just
[00:54:46] Jack: [00:54:46] gentle giant. I mean, yeah. I definitely get that. We
[00:54:51] Emma: [00:54:51] see it, he's just a little bit more obscure, but we get to learn a little bit more about her backstory. And we learned the truth about her first husband and not super [00:55:00] obvious cause of censorship, but her husband, you know, was gay and it appears that she bullied him so much into this, uh, lack of maybe getting sex from him.
[00:55:12] Uh, that it ended up in his destruction. So yeah, we finally learn about the truth about blanche, her, her sexual past, and we understand now why she thinks herself so ugly, maybe internally. And why is she puts up these illusions?
[00:55:33] Jack: [00:55:33] Wow. So I'll take a deep breath in through the nose, out through the mouth, take a deep breath.
[00:55:41] All right. Are we all good? All right. Yeah.
[00:55:43] Emma: [00:55:43] And I mean, what do we think of Stanley telling Mitch the truth?
[00:55:48] Jack: [00:55:48] I'm uh, you know, I'm, I'm a little at a crossroads because do I think, you know, honesty, transparency is the best policy. Yes. [00:56:00] But. Did he go about it in the right way? No. So
[00:56:04] Emma: [00:56:04] I kind of liked that answer and I, you know, I think I like this piece of, to me, this is a great.
[00:56:11] Example of writing conflict intention, because you see Stella wanting to look out for her sister and just end up with a nice guy, you know, just settle down and then you see Stanley wanting to protect his friend and you feel that collision. So. Like, I like that Tennessee,
[00:56:35] Jack: [00:56:35] Tennessee,
[00:56:36] Emma: [00:56:36] but also I thought it was so funny that you brought up the parrot joke and how they never finished the joke.
[00:56:42] Did you end up finding out
[00:56:45] Jack: [00:56:45] the, the full joke? I looked it up, but I want you to say the full pair of joke, because this was something that I immediately texted Emma. About. As soon as I watched it, I was like, darn, they didn't finish the parrot joke. And [00:57:00] then. You said, do you want me to tell you what it was?
[00:57:04] Well, now I would like for you to tell me what the pair of joke is.
[00:57:09] Emma: [00:57:09] All right. So this is the quote. The joke goes like this. The only way to silence the parrot was to cover its cage with a cloth. So would think that it was nighttime and go to sleep one morning, the pastor comes by to visit the woman right after she uncovered the cage.
[00:57:27] So she had to immediately cover it again. The pastor came inside and heard the parents say goddamn. That was a short day.
[00:57:38] Jack: [00:57:38] You gotta love, you gotta love an old, old joke, especially when it involves some, uh, some birds. Well, it's
[00:57:46] Emma: [00:57:46] funny. Cause I think a lot of people are like, do want to hear the rest of the joke. And I don't know if it's funny or knowing or not knowing,
[00:57:53] Jack: [00:57:53] like, I actually kind of like, not knowing, even though I'd give it like a five or a six out of 10.
[00:58:00] [00:57:59] Okay. Joke. But yeah. I kind of like not knowing because it just, it gives you endless possibilities. One of the best
[00:58:09] Emma: [00:58:09] pieces of life advice that I got from one of her cousins was always keep a joke in your back pocket. Like one that you can recite whenever. I dunno whenever you need it.
[00:58:20] Jack: [00:58:20] And that's great
[00:58:21] Emma: [00:58:21] life advice.
[00:58:22] This, this is apparently blanches, but yeah. So moving on. Oh, actually one note right before we move on, I like that the hint into blanches childhood background that she's always struggled with facing the difficulty of reality ever since a kid. And I just think that was good to show that consistency, I guess, and the origins.
[00:58:49] Jack: [00:58:49] Yeah, Stella's in labor. Stella's in labor. Everyone
[00:58:55] pray for that child later, Mitch arrives and confronts [00:59:00] blanche about Stanley's claims. She initially denies everything. Then breaks down confessing. She pleads for forgiveness, but Mitch hurt and humiliated roughly ends the relationship later that night while Stella's labor continues, Stanley returns from the hospital to get some sleep blanche dressed in a tattered old gown, pretend she is departing on a trip with an old admirer.
[00:59:24] She spins tale after tale about her fictitious future plans and he piddled Asley destroys her illusions. They engaged in a struggle after which blanche has shown in a regressed psychotic state implying Stanley may have raped her
[00:59:41] Emma: [00:59:41] well. Okay. So here, if we're keeping track of the alcohol intake, her alcohol addiction, is that right?
[00:59:50] Hi, uh, very much an attempt to keep this fantasy going that she will end up with Mitch. Maybe she, she likes living in this fantasy to hide her [01:00:00] true self or she, she almost needs it. It's a need, not even a, a want and Oh, also. In case you're curious. I think Vivian Lee was only like 36 ish at the time of filming.
[01:00:14] Yeah. And she did have to be made up to look older. So I
[01:00:20] Jack: [01:00:20] wasn't blanche, I mean, how old was blanche? Probably.
[01:00:23] Emma: [01:00:23] I bet she was supposed to be in her forties to be honest. Okay. So yeah, I mean, it I'm impressed because Vivian Lee is to me, you know, still so young, uh, and to have that. Channel someone even a few years older than her, I think is impressive.
[01:00:40] And a couple of different line changes here. Many meetings with strangers was originally many intimacies with strangers. Actually, I, when I was first, um, like writing that note, I accidentally wrote it, that it was changed to it's amaze with strangers. And I was like, that sounds way worse, but now it's meeting [01:01:00] strangers and I realized that the line of.
[01:01:04] Never lied in. My heart is such an interesting line, further lining up with this. Like it's not a life it's like if I want it to be the truth. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, it's, it's such a small line, but it stands out to me. Nothing, nothing goes to waste here in terms of dialogue with adding to the characterization, part of why this is so strong.
[01:01:29] I mean, this flower seller couldn't have come at a worst time. She's very much kind of this, a symbol for death, ghosts of her past. Uh, it makes it hard to hide from even that this symbol, because she's just out there. Yeah. I mean, I've just, again, I've got to commend Vivian Lee on her performance. I mean, she's carrying a lot of this film, single handedly.
[01:01:54] I mean, I've given every, everyone does a really good, fair share, but she has a very heavy chunk to [01:02:00] carry. So color me impressed. Cause she just. Delivers. And when blanche is meeting with Mitch, we'd see Mitch fall into the sexual aggression. Like when he forcefully kisses her and it's accompanied by him calling her unclean and why?
[01:02:20] So we see that Mitch. Well, despite maybe appearing to be this wholesome guy he does have that, you know, Stanley asked kindness about him that Stanley's representing. Yeah. We're, we're seeing that difference here in terms of sex and how it, it really empowers men. And it's the women here that are suffering or not just the women, the people with those moon qualities like her
[01:02:48] Jack: [01:02:48] husband.
[01:02:50] Yeah. The, the double standard I feel like is, uh, presence. It's just, yeah, it's, it's tough to watch. Like it's tough to watch blanche in this [01:03:00] state. Um, like, would you say that this is pretty much all stemming from. You know, her being, I guess, drunk and her alcoholism, or is there any other kind of mental factor playing into it?
[01:03:12] Cause that's what I didn't know. And that's what I think confused me.
[01:03:18] Emma: [01:03:18] I think it's definitely both. I
[01:03:20] Jack: [01:03:20] mean actually like mentally, besides being, you know, under the influence.
[01:03:26] Emma: [01:03:26] Um, yeah, so there's definitely something co-occurring going on. I mean, it's, it's hard to, I think it's hard to make a, for sure diagnosis of a movie character, but I do think that, you know, there could be a personality disorder, a delusional disorder, um, And it seems to be coming from a trauma response.
[01:03:47] Interesting. Which is actually kind of a common thing that Tennessee Williams writes into his work, this mental health failing, uh, as a trauma response.
[01:04:00] [01:04:00] Jack: [01:04:00] Interesting to have that sort of as a recurring theme. Uh, yeah, I mean, I'd love to do maybe even a deep dive into Tennessee Williams, who knows if you guys are interested.
[01:04:10] Okay. Hit us up also movie podcasts on Instagram, also put on Twitter. Uh, but yeah,
[01:04:15] Emma: [01:04:15] I mean, we do see her go into this full on mental delusion. Uh, when Stanley comes back, she is completely stuck in a fantasy living out her past and the instant we hear Stanley's voice, it's kind of shattered for us. I mean, it's a little comforting to see her like, look happy in a sense.
[01:04:34] Right. But then it's like, Stanley comes back, it's over and it does. Oh, like when she says we ought to be alone, like that fear definitely can pop up. And it becomes a hunting game where it is cat and mouse. I mean like, so this whole time we had this tension between them, which bordered between sexual and hate [01:05:00] and that aspect of his masculinity and her fear.
[01:05:04] It leads to him raping her, uh, which is just the ultimate. Her and destruction and it comes together in that moment, like the ultimate act of violence to cert power and control. Is this rape over her? Yeah. Which absolutely terrible. And I think it's. Pretty obvious if you've seen the play that that's what happens.
[01:05:27] He carries her to his bedroom after she passes out, out of just being overwhelmed and yeah. And here it's, I th I'm sure it's very unclear to people
[01:05:39] Jack: [01:05:39] maybe, maybe not. I mean, I think it was just unclear to me because it really looked like they were about to fight and I thought that maybe a fight occurred, but yeah, I mean, I'm sure.
[01:05:50] A lot of people are probably more on the nose with it then than I am. So you probably got it right away, but
[01:05:57] Emma: [01:05:57] yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it was a major issue for production [01:06:00] to keep this ambiguous, probably their biggest issue from what it sounds like, but you know what? I'm going to be honest here. I think they got away with quite a bit more than what I would expect.
[01:06:13] I just, you, you can tell like he's in his hunting mode and then with the glass shattering and her like it, her reflection in the mirror. I, to me, I think that's like, uh, uh, All things, all things considering with the production code and the Catholic Legion of decency.
[01:06:31] Jack: [01:06:31] Yeah. And there's one point in particular that stands out to me, uh, during all this.
[01:06:37] And it's what I was thinking before she even said it, but just how he was acting was so cruel. You know, I was thinking it in my head, like, this is just so cruel, like cruelty beyond anything you could imagine almost. And so, uh, she basically calls it out out loud and it just doesn't matter. It's it's really [01:07:00] kind of like witnessing, like, I don't know, evil in a way.
[01:07:04] Yeah. It's yeah, it's just a, it's such an emotionally intense scene. I could easily see how this would, um, affect. Maybe someone that has similar triggers or maybe, I don't know, similar circumstances. So you do have to, I think wash this with caution, just like knowing how intense it gets, but, um, it's important.
[01:07:26] It's important to watch because of what you talked about. She's launched Dubois, you know, the white, white woods are white made of woods purity, personified, and you have like, basically just a, I don't even know. A Neanderthal. I don't know. I really don't know. Maybe Neanderthal would have some more redeeming qualities than Stanley.
[01:07:50] I have no clue.
[01:07:52] Emma: [01:07:52] We'll just circle back to Tennessee Williams, quote that we mentioned earlier. I think that pretty much sums it up. This, uh, powerful, masculine, [01:08:00] dominant, controlling aspects, traits of the world, taking over something that's maybe weaker and struggling or fragile or sensitive. That's that's what you get in that moment.
[01:08:11] So yeah,
[01:08:13] Jack: [01:08:13] hard to watch, but I think I'm important. Okay. So shall we. Move on. Oh yes.
[01:08:22] Emma: [01:08:22] How does this
[01:08:23] Jack: [01:08:23] tail end weeks later during another poker game at the Kuwalski apartment, Stella and Eunice are packing blanches belongings blanche, who believes she was going on. A vacation has suffered a complete mental breakdown is being committed to a mental hospital.
[01:08:39] Blanche told Stella what happened with Stanley, but Stella disbelieves, her. When a doctor, a nurse arrived through removed blanche, she resists in collapses seized with total confusion. The doctor gently offers blanches arm and she goes willingly. Delivering the famous line, whoever you are, I've always depended on the kindness of strangers.
[01:09:00] [01:08:59] Mitch present at the poker game is visibly upset as the car drives away with blanche. Stella takes the baby upstairs to Eunice's ignoring Stanley's calls and vowing not to return.
[01:09:11] Emma: [01:09:11] Post this last piece of violence blanche is in a total delusional state. Uh, she has retreated to her fantasy world permanently, uh, for possibly a constant state of security.
[01:09:26] And you get some interesting things here, particularly with Stella choosing not to believe blanche. About the sexual assault. And I do think this directs, uh, this directly relates to her codependency. I think she's choosing not to believe her out of the fear of potentially losing Stanley. So I agree.
[01:09:53] That's something I see there for sure. Yeah. Kind of her, her. Difficulties are.
[01:09:58] Jack: [01:09:58] Yeah, [01:10:00] it's really, really tough. And, um, I think, yeah, personally I was still confused because I just, yeah. Still didn't know really what was going on. It happens a little fast, so, um, And yeah, I mean, I felt like I was paying attention to which I maybe I'm just dumb, who knows.
[01:10:21] Okay. But, um, but, uh, it, it it's, you know, it's really hard to witness everything happening with blanche and, um, yeah, it's just a total breakdown of. Yeah.
[01:10:32] Emma: [01:10:32] Yeah. And I mean, we get the delivery of probably one of the most famous movie line play lines, fiction lines ever, which is the, I've always depended on the kindness of strangers quote.
[01:10:45] So what does this mean? You may
[01:10:48] Jack: [01:10:48] yeah. Enlighten us
[01:10:51] Emma: [01:10:51] if you're just like, what, uh, why is it so famous? Here's the thing blanche has. Always [01:11:00] relied on this perceived, perceived kindness of strangers because she has trouble in the real world. So she officially reverts to fantasy of how she perceives things. So if you were.
[01:11:21] Also kind of on a historical note, if you were watching this at the time, it came out mental health treatment was not what it is now. Tennessee Williams had a sister who was, uh, institutionalized in a mental health hospital. And I think she was eventually lobotomized. So then as, I mean, you, you wouldn't know that necessarily as an audience, but knowing that general idea that mental hospitals were not.
[01:11:47] Places that treated people with dignity, respect, and human rights. You can assume that that's actually what's coming for Blatch. She's not getting kindness in the, uh, in the end. She [01:12:00] is not reliant on kindness. Their reality is she's dependent on a loop, which quite frankly have oftentimes been very destructive to her, uh, kindness being one of them or hurt, like, you know, Kindness being one of them, like she thinks people are being nice and, um, it's really hurting her or they're out to hurt her maybe.
[01:12:28] Yeah. Again, circling back to everything Tennessee Williams said with his. The meeting of his CNC wrote. Yeah. And then what does the title mean? Streetcar named desire. Uh, it's really the desire of how she wants things and how they actually are. And they're indistinguishable to her. So
[01:12:50] Jack: [01:12:50] there you go. Cut and dry.
[01:12:53] That is it. I mean, are there any other interpretations that you could find? Is that, is that it? Oh,
[01:13:00] [01:12:59] Emma: [01:12:59] I mean, I'm sure someone can come up with something. I mean, who knows? Yeah. At the end of the day, she's dependent on delusions and that's what keeps her going. And, uh, this ends into total destruction for her.
[01:13:16] Via via these other channels too, with sexing
[01:13:19] Jack: [01:13:19] alcohol, but
[01:13:21] Emma: [01:13:21] Stella. Oh, okay. So this is like I mentioned earlier, one of the biggest differences, the production code sensors required. That Stella leave this rapist for punishment, an absolute tragedy, in my opinion, because the real ending is a lot more powerful with them staying together and leading to hooking up again.
[01:13:48] And in the play, you can directly see that it speaks to the cycle of abusive behavior, continuing aggressive masculinity, thriving, and the patriarchy [01:14:00] persisting. Now, however that being said, I think that this ending is not the end of the world from an artistic point of view.
[01:14:13] Jack: [01:14:13] I would agree with you. I wonder if we're on the same wavelength here, so this'll be interesting to see, but please inform me what you're thinking now.
[01:14:21] Emma: [01:14:21] Because of the powerful scene with terrific acting earlier that we saw with Stanley's plea at the bottom of the stairs, we have seen how this power control, abusive relationship cycle works and the audience then has the choice to believe if she. Ended up going back down the stairs with the baby anyways, which is how I choose to interpret it.
[01:14:51] Or if you are more aligned with the censored version for your own needs, that she leaves this abuser, but [01:15:00] you have the option of doing so. And in that way, it becomes a brilliant Mehta experience and an ironic one at that, that you can either face the rough reality of a situation, or you see if you have the need to tell yourself something positive and amazing happened for your own sense of security.
[01:15:21] Which is exactly what the characters in this movie go through. So you see these sensors pushing this agenda and need for something fake. And to hide the truth or you can see the truth of it. And I think they did a really good job and, and wow.
[01:15:43] Jack: [01:15:43] Wow. Wow. Just, yeah. I mean, my mind was that it exploded. What'd you say?
[01:15:50] Um, yeah, I mean, you basically went exactly where I was thinking whether, and like, again, circling back to the, I guess earlier moment [01:16:00] within. The movie with that terrific acting of her being, you know, like seduce down the steps, again, him picking her up, it's like the never ending cycle. And so, um, you could still, I think, look at it exactly how the play intended it.
[01:16:16] So just well articulated Emma, that was, that was fantastic. All that being said.
[01:16:22] Emma: [01:16:22] I don't think it would have been the end of the world that the stellar character had looked back behind her before cutting to the end credits. But you know, still good. Still good
[01:16:32] Jack: [01:16:32] class is dismissed everyone. You may all go home.
[01:16:35] What a crazy crazy episode. I'm trying to think if there's anything else that, um, I wanted to mention, but I think that's it. I hope I got everything
[01:16:45] Emma: [01:16:45] I'm really nervous. I didn't cause I, I really truly respect and admire this work for everything it has to
[01:16:51] Jack: [01:16:51] give. Yeah. It's so heavy. It's just such a heavy piece and yeah.
[01:16:56] What, what was something that stood out to you? [01:17:00] Uh, I mean, we'd love to continue the dialogue on social media. Also movie podcasts on Instagram, also part on Twitter, uh, feel free to. Reach out to us. Um, yeah, this was such a big one.
[01:17:13] Emma: [01:17:13] Yeah. Speaking. Um, I know some of you have been reaching out to us on our various social media and I just can't.
[01:17:19] Thank you enough and tell you how much we appreciate that because yeah, we just, we love it's this isn't for me, I guess I feel like this is really to. You know, open up those thoughts and these works for people who also love them. So, yeah.
[01:17:36] Jack: [01:17:36] Yeah. Yeah. Great introduction. Hopefully we made some sense. I think you more than me, uh, of course, but, um,
[01:17:47] Emma: [01:17:47] having no prior knowledge,
[01:17:48] Jack: [01:17:48] nailed it.
[01:17:49] Yeah. No prior knowledge, which was just a whirlwind to say the least to experience. Um, but. Such an important film, such an important piece of [01:18:00] cinema, 70 years old, 77 years old, but still I think very relevant and pertinent to themes that exist today. You know, they may look different, but they're still there.
[01:18:11] Um, I guarantee it so. Well, that might make you feel uneasy, but, um, I think, uh, it's just, it's a beautiful piece of art and I'm glad that we had the chance to chat about it. Emma, um, share the old soul fam with anybody who you think would love it would want to be part of it. Um, or, you know, I don't know. I don't even know.
[01:18:36] I don't even know what else, but, um, or to someone who. Needs a streetcar named desire in their life. I don't even know what that would look like, but it's out there. So, Emma, what would you like to say before we. Leave here,
[01:18:53] Emma: [01:18:53] honestly, just thank you for your time. I know that was a very heavy one. Once again, we will have mental health resources available [01:19:00] in the description box, wherever you're listening to this too, and get excited for something maybe a little lighter next week for our Valentine's
[01:19:11] Jack: [01:19:11] special.
[01:19:13] Oh boy, get ready. I'm going to go do some, uh, some pull-ups in the meantime, maybe by, uh, A size, small t-shirt or two.
[01:19:23] Exactly. Exactly until next time, everybody. Thank you so much. Again, for tuning in to the old school movie podcast, we cannot wait to see you next time. And we look forward to it with all of our hearts until then take care.